New York Times on the Web Forums Resource Area for Forum Hosts and Moderators

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

rshow55 - 09:05am Feb 26, 2003 EST (# 9297 of 17697)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

Eight postings from yesterday were deleted from this thread last night. Two of mine, including this text, will be reposted on the Guardian. :

lunarchick - 09:38pm Sep 27, 2000 EDT (#317 Barrier Reef - not the place4 - NUKE SUBs !

That's an ORDER! Milgram (1963) - the classic study in this area:

(gone: http://www.fsu.u../_images/dept/psyc/southerl/prism/bill.htm )

http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfpfa/CVs/Bertha/Psyhero.html http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~epritch1/social98a.html http://www.abacon.com/baronbyrne/chapter9.html http://www.psychology.org/links/People_and_History/

http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md00100s/md310

328-329 - Prisoner's dilemma - lies, negotiation - and the importance of ending up in the right place .

http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md00100s/md328

Lecture Notes: Introductory Psychology by Prof. Evan Pritchard http://www.uwinnipeg.ca/~epritch1/social98a.html includes this:

Milgram's Obedience Study

- -

There can be too much obedience. Pritchard's piece also refers to Jonestown. There can be entirely too much of "the leadership principle." And too much bullying.

rshow55 - 09:51am Feb 26, 2003 EST (# 9298 of 17697)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

In 9284-9285, http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.DDr1b0YuYGb.1125144@.f28e622/10818 gisterme makes some interesting points - including this:

"The Iraq issue has nothing to do with the US "losing face". It has to do with Saddam Hussein complying with UN resolutions. If the US could "lose some face" in exchange for Saddam taking down his WMD programs I'd be all for it. That doesn't seem to be something that's likely to happen.

"The UN has already lost nearly all of its "face" because Saddam has played it for the patsy for twelve years. The UN will lose the rest of it's "face" and prove itself irrelevant if it cannot even enforce its own resolutions. If the UN can't do that, then what good is it?

"UN or not, according to the president, Saddam will be disarmed of WMD.

Questions of international order are important - no matter how distasteful Saddam is. And when the question is "what matters" - if only the opinion of the President matters - then the US, and the world, are placing some very heavy bets.

- - -

Blix Says Iraq Signals New Cooperation By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 6:40 p.m. ET http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-UN-Iraq.html

"Only Bulgaria is now considered in the U.S.-British-Spanish camp. The 11 other council members, to varying degrees, back continued inspections.

. . .

"The 10 non-permanent members of the Security Council -- whose votes are crucial to both sides -- met Tuesday afternoon with France's U.N. Ambassador Jean-Marc de La Sabliere at Chile's U.N. Mission.

"On Wednesday, they are expected to meet with Negroponte, council diplomats said.

A main definition of "to bully" is to intimidate - to overawe. Saddam is distasteful - but a great deal of bullying now, is being done by the United States. If the other nation states surrender to that - the UN will, indeed be dimished. Will that really serve the interests of United States, or the rest of the world?

Freeman states concerns that are general - not at all limited to the Saudis.

Even a Superpower Needs Help By CHAS W. FREEMAN Jr. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/26/opinion/26FREE.html

If the US is percieved as a bully - if cooperation with the United States is grudging - US bases, and US power - may be very much diminished.

Perhaps that's what needs to happen.

I'm sure of this. The world needs more cooperation - more ability to get right answers.

The US is emphatically right that force does have to be a resort in international affairs.

If the answer to how it is to be used is "as the US government pleases - though with a few politic gestures - and underhanded dealings -both payments and threats" - that is not the best answer.

Even from the point of view of the United States.

We need to deal with the world as it is - not be too idealistic. But giant steps backward aren't helpful.

almarst2003 - 11:01am Feb 26, 2003 EST (# 9299 of 17697)

http://electroniciraq.net/

(8398 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Resource Area for Forum Hosts and Moderators Missile Defense