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Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a
nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a
"Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed
considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense
initiatives more successful? Can such an application of
science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable,
necessary or impossible?
Read Debates, a new
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(9009 previous messages)
rshow55
- 04:16pm Feb 16, 2003 EST (#
9010 of 17697) Can we do a better job of finding
truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have
done and worked for on this thread.
341 - 356 in Mankind's Inhumanity to Man and Woman - as
Natural as Human Goodness? http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?8@@.ee7b085/383
sets out a series of postings from March 17-24, 2001,
originally on this thread - that were also described - with
links that work now - on July 24th in 7388-7390 below.
rshowalter - 08:17pm Jul 24, 2001 EST #7388-7390
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md7000s/md7387.htm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md7000s/md7390.htm
Dawn and I were proud to interact with almarst , and
I think we both were fascinated with his passionate, angry
arguments that, dealing with the United States, Russia needed
nuclear weapons. It was like talking to a very smart,
responsible person, living in a different conceptual world
from the one I came from.
Part of my job, for years, strongly encouraged by Casey,
was to work on negotiation dynamics, and especially to try to
figure out "why we couldn't talk to the Russians."
Casey was clear that, even when we tried to avoid fights with
the Russians, we got into them. The Russians had corresponding
problems with us. I'd spent a good deal of time, working with
Steve Kline, thinking about problems of complex cooperation --
and the idea of complexity itself -- partly because of a sense
of those problems, and partly because of related difficulties
with "paradigm conflict" that Steve and I had become
interested in, that Dawn Riley and I have clarified this last
year.
We were especially interested in dialog with almarst
after we read "Muddle in Moscow" http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=533129
..... cited in MD1126 rshowalter 3/17/01 4:57pm ... http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1125.htm
When we read that story, we imagined that we really were
dealing with a powerful man who had taken time, with a staff,
to do some listening. Or perhaps we were in a "dry run" that
that powerful person might be interested in. And for the next
week, Dawn and I worked hard to tell almarst
things we thought President Putin might be able to use, and
got a lot of perceptive dialog back from almarst while
we were doing it.
MD1127 rshowalter 3/17/01 5:06pm ... MD1128 rshowalter
3/17/01 5:31pm MD1129 rshowalter 3/17/01 5:38pm ... MD1130
rshowalter 3/17/01 5:38pm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1125.htm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1129_1130.htm
MD1131 rshowalter 3/17/01 6:02pm ... MD1132 rshowalter
3/17/01 6:10pm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1131_1137.htm
rshow55
- 04:17pm Feb 16, 2003 EST (#
9011 of 17697) Can we do a better job of finding
truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have
done and worked for on this thread.
Kline's Index of complexity -- V + P + L < C < V
times P times L ... a key reason why truth is
critical for good function in complex systems.
MD1133 rshowalter 3/17/01 6:13pm ... MD1134 rshowalter
3/17/01 6:17pm MD1135 rshowalter 3/17/01 6:19pm ... MD1136
rshowalter 3/17/01 6:24pm MD1138 rshowalter 3/17/01 7:20pm ...
MD1139 lunarchick 3/17/01 7:47pm MD1140 lunarchick 3/17/01
7:52pm ...
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1131_1137.htm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1137_1145.htm
The need for 3 views -- the need to account for positions
that have "some of the truth, but not all of it."
MD1143 rshowalter 3/17/01 8:03pm ... MD1144 rshowalter
3/17/01 8:04pm MD1145 rshowalter 3/17/01 8:22pm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1137_1145.htm
MD1150 rshowalter 3/17/01 9:57pm ... http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1148_1150.htm
The dialog went on, and we got onto some crucial
information, I felt, about economic efficiency, which I set
out in:
MD1394 rshowalter 3/23/01 5:30pm ... MD1395 rshowalter
3/23/01 5:36pm MD1396 rshowalter 3/23/01 5:38pm ... MD1397
rshowalter 3/23/01 5:41pm MD1398 rshowalter 3/23/01 5:43pm ...
MD1399 rshowalter 3/23/01 5:51pm MD1400 rshowalter 3/23/01
5:53pm . and, for emphasis, ... MD 1401 rshowalter 3/23/01
5:56pm
It is important for Russians to talk more informatively and
reliably among themselves, and with others.
MD1402 rshowalter 3/23/01 5:58pm ... MD1403 rshowalter
3/23/01 6:22pm MD1404 rshowalter 3/23/01 6:33pm ...
MD1405-8 rshowalter 3/23/01 6:37pm
A key point that should be common ground, for all the
disappointment and bitterness: MD1409 rshowalter 3/23/01
7:10pm
And I suggested an exercise in MD1410-1415 rshowalter
3/23/01 7:30pm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1394.htm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1402.htm
http://www.mrshowalter.net/a_md01000s/md1409_1418.htm
After that week of dialog, I felt I understood the
Russians better, and hoped that, if the Russians could
understand these things, they might be able to sort out some
of their internal and international problems better than
before.
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