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    Missile Defense

Keywords: optics

n Missile Defense #11305 - mazza9 Feb 6, 2002 01:50 pm
RShow55:

"Among them, the fact that the "adaptive optics" of ABL can't possibly work -- because it has nothing to adapt to remotely good enough to make it function as a weapon. There is no adaptive feedback loop worthy of the name for the purpose the weapon is supposed to serve."

I posted links to several astronomical sites where adaptive optics is described and displayed in "before" and "after" the adaptive optics techniques are applied.

To say that no adaptive feedback loop exists is to ignore the evidence presented.

Active AO reads the turbulence in the atmosphere using a "guide star" that is projected from the viewing site. The distortion of this known light source is read and the optical distortion is measured and relayed to mirror for the deforming to occur which will cancel our the distortion.

Mind you this is not new...

n Missile Defense #11298 - rshow55 Feb 6, 2002 11:16 am
I'm slogging through the last few days postings -- especially those of Mazza and gisterme - but feel that most emphasis should be put on technical issues.

Among them, the fact that the "adaptive optics" of ABL can't possibly work -- because it has nothing to adapt to remotely good enough to make it function as a weapon. There is no adaptive feedback loop worthy of the name for the purpose the weapon is supposed to serve...

n Missile Defense #11244 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 08:46 pm
We're talking about very far fetched resolutions, when we imagine that the ABL, or other laser weapons, can actually work -- (and especially, that they can work with simple reflective decal countermeasures.)

The NASA people were right that "using a rifle to hit a moving dime two miles away" is hard -- and would be hard even with a perfect rifle, and perfect bullets, and would be hard even shooting in a vacuum.

For ABL, you need resolutions far greater -- and starting without really knowing to good resolution where the target is - - and with little information to help with that - and with little time to find out.

...

n Missile Defense #11243 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 08:35 pm
Claims of enormously tight angular resolution for lasers, keyed to a measurement of earth-moon distances, were made in MD6424 gisterme 7/2/01 5:03pm and are being repeated now. In MD6424 they referred to

. Measuring the Moon's Distance Apollo Laser Ranging Experiments Yield Results (from LPI Bulletin, No...

n Missile Defense #11242 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 07:47 pm
You put numbers in the fantasy -- and ABL is just that -- a fantasy. The "reference lasar" has to refer to the target. How does that "reference lasar" focus on the target with enough resolution to aim the lasar -- again, what does the adaptive optics adapt to?..

n Missile Defense #11239 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 05:37 pm
MD11238 mazza9 2/4/02 4:55pm

So adaptive optics has been under development since 1953, it works as well as it does in astronomy, and computers are much faster than they used to be.

Angular resolution on radar is lousy, as you say, but radar can measure distance very well, too -- by measuring time.

Radar distance measurements are not as good as light wave (laser) distance measurements, but both hinge on time resolution of the systems involved...

n Missile Defense #11238 - mazza9 Feb 4, 2002 04:55 pm
RShow55: The Adaptive Optics post I referred you to said that the original thoughts on this process were laid down in 1953. Computers and deformable mirrors did not exist. When the original SDI work was performed in the mid 80s we were just transitioning to 386 machines and Super computers were new and unwieldy...

n Missile Defense #11237 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 03:49 pm
The question isn't whether adaptive optics works in general -- of course it does. The question is whether it works in this case.

In MD11229 rshow55 2/4/02 10:28am I asked:

" Is it common ground that there is no reference source, focused on the missile or other target, that is available for the adaptive optics of ABL to work from?..

n Missile Defense #11236 - gisterme Feb 4, 2002 03:35 pm
rshow55 2/3/02 4:02pm (WRT adaptive optics)

"..."The question is "adaptive of what, with respect to what?"

Any detail you can supply would be appreciated -- without those details, I'll make estimates, and try to be clear about them..."

Your eyeballs have one organic example of adaptive optics. You can actively change the focal length of their lenses just by looking to different distances. Adaptive optics in telescope terms are mirror controls that offset atmospheric distortion in real time to get "in focus" pictures through a varying atmosphere...

n Missile Defense #11234 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 03:29 pm
Even if the optics were perfect, and could focus on a true point, or something close to it, from a range of 100 miles -- you'd still have to aim it to a similar accuracy - - otherwise, the beam would sweep and shake across so much area, so fast, that it would do no damage.

There are, as Mazza's reference points out, a chain of things that have to happen together, which have to be accurate enough to make the system work.

n Missile Defense #11233 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 03:24 pm
mazza, perhaps in this particular instance, I misjudged your intention. In fact, you're right -- there is information there to adapt.

When I walked away, after posting, I had a sinking feeling about that...

n Missile Defense #11232 - mazza9 Feb 4, 2002 03:11 pm
RShow55: I thought that I was providing additional information so that you could "adapt". I was wrong. You obviously don't have the capacity to understand the complex systems described from these unclassified sources...

n Missile Defense #11231 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 02:53 pm
The MD community has built up patterns that assume that they can't be checked -- that they can simply ignore consistency relations.

Here's a quote I really like, from -- Dashiell Hammet in The Thin Man 1933, speaking of a sexy, interesting, treacherous character named " Mimi ". He's asked by a police detective what to make of what she says:

" The chief thing," I advised him, "is not to let her wear you out...

n Missile Defense #11229 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 10:28 am
We've made some progress towards clarity in the last few days, and I've gotten some substantial responses from Mazza and gisterme that have made convergence to the truth easier. MD11192 rshow55 2/2/02 3:42pm

We should not forget the stakes here:

Plan to Stop Missile Threat Could Cost $238 Billion by JAMES DAO http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/01/international/01MISS.html

" Building and operating the major missile defense programs now under development by the Bush administration could cost as much as $238 billion by 2025....

Is it becoming more and more plausible that some of the worst patterns on show at Enron apply to the missile defense programs, as well?..

n Missile Defense #11228 - rshow55 Feb 4, 2002 08:11 am
To get a bigger, clearer image of http://cfao.ucolick.org/images/aoscheme.gif . . ...

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