New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

cantabb - 12:03pm Nov 11, 2003 EST (# 17289 of 17297)

lchic - 11:52am Nov 11, 2003 EST (# 17287 of 17287)

refocusing on Showalter's post ...

Of course, what else ? Sure, you would want to 'refocus' on his rehashes of rehashes.... What else's there for you here ?

Showalter is real

He's listed and contactable via the Madison phone book

So, are most people of Madison, WI !

But what about YOU ? No idea how "real" you are -- or working for what "real" employer, with what "real" purpose here !

When is this "TRUTH" gonna be let out !

Go on --- Cantabulate on the above ... or, show 'restraint' ... or are you paid 'by the post' ... if so maintain your income stream :)

Well, you and rshow haven't shown any 'restraint' -- even so close to the curtains. And rshow is still "musing" about his plans for "outrage."

How ARE YOU paid ? BY your still un-disclosed employer ?

Some people may think you've done enough on NYT (for enough AUS $) for you to retire on -- but please don't. The "world" needs its "Asset."

rshow55 - 12:04pm Nov 11, 2003 EST (# 17290 of 17297)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

Note: Displacement activity:

Seeing Is Always Believing By MAX FRANKEL http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/09/opinion/09FRAN.html

"Well, of course, the networks tell us, the news is supposed to be true. Dramas produced by the entertainment division are different. They have no such obligation to accuracy. They produce what are acknowledged to be historical fictions that aim to convey a higher truth. The audience, the networks contend, is not so dumb as to think the words put into the mouths of actors representing Ronald and Nancy Reagan — or Jessica Lynch and Elizabeth Smart and even their captors! — were all actually spoken by them. People are expected to know they are watching impersonations, not file footage, and that the atmosphere of the play and the essence of its personalities are the products of artistic deduction.

But even if an audience knows, what does it believe? And what was it expected to believe?

. . . . . Producing believable fictions that have real consequence is one of the prized television arts.

. THAT'S AN ARGUMENT FOR CHECKING FACTS - AND FOR SOCIAL PATTERNS THAT PERMIT IT TO HAPPEN - AND CAN INSIST THAT IT HAPPENS .

Frankel also did this superb piece - much cited on this thread.

TURNING AWAY FROM THE HOLOCAUST by Max Frankel Nov 14, 2001 .. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/14/specials/onefifty/20FRAN.html

Hitler's extermination of the Jews was a plain example of a carefully thought out, multiply articulated complex cooperation - it was a complicated sociotechnical system - it was motivated by ideas - and coordinated. It was based on ideas that went unchecked in many senses that matter.

Our systems of nuclear weapons are also complicated sociotechnical systems, based on ideas and patterns of responses. The "balance of terror" still exists - at the level of hardware - and it was built, step by step - because of explosive instabilities in a "game that was not a game."

A dangerous and very expensive negative sum "game."

Suggestion: Turning Away from the Holocaust is a good search on this thread.

15598 - 15599 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.ch1VbBrwXaw.2712749@.f28e622/17314

5207 includes this:

The 1986 Pulitzer prize for explanatory journalism went to the staff of New York Times -

" For a six-part comprehensive series on the Strategic Defense Initiative, which explored the scientific, political and foreign policy issues involved in "Star Wars."

The weakness of truth - and the presentation of it has been a key concern at the TIMES for a long time - often with the highest possible stakes.

Some issues of tactics - and logical structure have high stakes, too. We have to know how to turn away from the horrors of war. Technically. In detail. So we can actually do it when it counts - that is, when we're really injured, really angry, and really afraid.

Cantabb asked me to flesh out my threat. Thinking about that.

But a technical point first. Sometimes - within established conventions it is essential at the level of grammar that there be threats - that there be a balance of pluses and minuses. Even when they are pro forma. Quite often, they are not.

cantabb - 12:05pm Nov 11, 2003 EST (# 17291 of 17297)

lchic - 11:58am Nov 11, 2003 EST (# 17288 of 17289)

Courteous guests stay till it's curtains

Courteous "guests" that engage in false accusations and poster harassment till it's curtains -- are shown the door ! For a "graceful" EXIT !

(6 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense