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Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a
nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a
"Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed
considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense
initiatives more successful? Can such an application of
science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable,
necessary or impossible?
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(16615 previous messages)
rshow55
- 06:46am Nov 6, 2003 EST (#
16616 of 16633) Can we do a better job of finding
truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have
done and worked for on this thread.
" but where oh where can that Showalter be? " Partly
looking at this:
Iraq Said to Have Tried to Reach Last-Minute Deal to
Avert War By JAMES RISEN http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/06INTE.html
WASHINGTON, Nov. 5 — As American soldiers
massed on the Iraqi border in March and diplomats argued
about war, an influential adviser to the Pentagon received a
secret message from a Lebanese-American businessman: Saddam
Hussein wanted to make a deal.
Iraqi officials, including the chief of the
Iraqi Intelligence Service, had told the businessman that
they wanted Washington to know that Iraq no longer had
weapons of mass destruction, and they offered to allow
American troops and experts to conduct a search. The
businessman said in an interview that the Iraqis also
offered to hand over a man accused of being involved in the
World Trade Center bombing in 1993 who was being held in
Baghdad. At one point, he said, the Iraqis pledged to hold
elections.
. . . .
No meetings took place, and the invasion
began on March 20. Mr. Hage wonders what might have happened
if the Americans had pursued the back channel to Baghdad.
"At least they could have talked to them,"
he said.
This news should be part of a collecting and
connecting of "dots."
Including what was said here:
Text of News Conference on Iraq Azores, March 16,
2003 with U.S. President Bush, Jose Manuel Durao Barroso,
Prime Minister of Portugal, Tony Blair, Prime Minister of
Britain and Jose Maria Aznar, Prime Minister of Spain http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/16/international/16IRAQ-TEXT.html
Here is Berle: ( Power - Chapter II )
In the hands or mind of an individual, the
impulse toward power is not inherently limited. Limits are
imposed by extraneous fact and usually also by
conscience and intellectual restraint. Capacity to make
others do what you wish knows only those limitations.
That's plain and straight. Power holders want to limit
the ability of others to determine facts because that extends
their power. It is in the overwhelming collective interest to
see that facts that matter enough are determined - both so
that power can be reasonably limited - and because human
beings have to make decisions on what they believe to be
true.
If leaders of nation states had the wisdom, fortitude and
courage to face the fact that there have to be limits on the
right of people in power to decieve themselves and others,
we'd live in a much more hopeful world. Limits that put some
limits on personal political power and on sovereignty.
Maybe not severe limits. Maybe not limits applied with
great consistency. But some limits. Enforced sometimes. When
it matters enough.
If that were faced, the US would have to deal with some
embarrassments. But an index of how much is screwed up,
misunderstood, and deceptive is how well national groups treat
their own citizens - and get along in the worldr - how well
their cooperation works in human terms.
10076 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.34Q0bsYfVMV.1770957@.f28e622/11621
This thread has been about a lot more than missile defense
- and from Nov 2002 to March there was a lot of
discussion about Iraq.
Iraq States Its Case is an interesting search on
this thread. http://www.mrshowalter.net/Iraq%20States%20Its%20Case.htm
The question "what did they know - and when did they
know it" is an important one.
rshow55
- 06:53am Nov 6, 2003 EST (#
16617 of 16633) Can we do a better job of finding
truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have
done and worked for on this thread.
Iraq Said to Have Tried to Reach Last-Minute Deal to
Avert War by JAMES RISEN http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/06INTE.html
is extremely interesting - and a point that interests me is
technical . In communication between people who
distrust each other - communication is inherently unstable -
and it is tough to find enough channels ( and enough word
count ) and enough triangulation so that messages are
effective and so that deceptions can be effectively enough
and quickly enough constrained.
If the facts in Iraq Said to Have Tried to Reach
Last-Minute Deal to Avert War by JAMES RISEN http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/06/politics/06INTE.html
had been known on March 16th - and checked by credible
sources - ( and enough of them ) - a war that could not be
stopped by massive demonstrations in the streets might have
been stopped. In part because the demonstrations might have
been bigger. In part because, whatever might have happened in
the US - the press in the UK would have rebelled.
Technique matters. And the question is truth
morally forcing is an important one - not yet faced
clearly enough when technical issues of communication and
decision making are complicated.
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