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 [F] New York Times on the Web Forums  / Science  /

    Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.


Earliest Messages Previous Messages Recent Messages Outline (14133 previous messages)

rshow55 - 04:07pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14134 of 14145)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7a163/483 includes some petty pictures - and dialog about them Fractal Images http://www.softsource.com/softsource/fractal.html

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_cndl.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_pine.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_pine.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_trieye.gif

Control systems out of adjustment oscillate uncontrollably or diverge - like fractals - they do not close. But things can be adjusted so that order, symettry, and harmony for a purpose are attainable. People, of course, do this often - when they take care, and know enough to do so.

Problem is, when people face complicated circumstances - often they do things backwards - and things explode.

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@.4a90f6e9/85

A lot of plots look like images you see in many fractals - and some plots of this kind that are practical are shown in books like

Analysis of Nonlinear Control Systems by Dunstan Graham and Duane McRuer 1961 - Dover ed 1971

I quote some from that fine book.

7896 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.h1YTbtNkJG4.2636994@.f28e622/9421

7897 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.h1YTbtNkJG4.2636994@.f28e622/94227

7897 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.h1YTbtNkJG4.2636994@.f28e622/9423

"Some of the most unpleasant surprises of which nonlinear control systems are capable are

1. divergent instability

2. limit cycles

3. multiple equilibrium points.

For large perturbations of nonlinear systems that are not controlled at a higher level, divergent instability is the rule - multiple quasi-equilibrium points are not surprises, but the overwhelming expectation - and limit cycles are the best, as a practical matter, that anybody can actually hope for - or can actually get. Very, very often - what happens looks fractal.

But with care - and switching - designed for particular cases and calibrated - excellent performance can be achieved. It isn't likely to happen by accident, though.

- Cantabb - jorian - you've mastered the "art" of hitting things with a big hammer - to make sure nothing can converge.

I'm not sure you could do better if you tried.

I'm out for a little while.

jorian319 - 04:17pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14135 of 14145)
The dogmatism is all on the side that maintains there is no global climate effect ...Anyone who has visited a city like LA on a nice smog filled day knows that's not true. -amzingdrx

Well, Robert, if you ever come back, maybe you could respond to my post about Langley and control. The lesson of the Langley/Wright Brothers saga includes the point that controls are not necessarily fractal - in real-life engineering, YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE THINGS BIGGER!

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 [F] New York Times on the Web Forums  / Science  / Missile Defense