New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

commondata - 01:04am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13936 of 13958)

Two views from Iraq; the first from Girl Blog:

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

As the tanks and Apaches invaded the city, they shot left and right at any vehicle in their path. The areas that got it worst were Al-Dawra and Al-A’adhamia. People in residential areas didn’t know what to do with the corpses in the burnt vehicles that had come from other parts of the city. They were the corpses of people and families who were trying to get away from the heavy fighting in their own areas, some of them had been officially evacuated.

The corpses sat decomposing in the heat, beyond identification. Some people tried asking the troops to help deal with them, but the reaction was mainly, “That’s not my job.” Of course not, how silly… your job is to burn the cars, we bury the corpses.

Finally, the people began to bury the corpses along the roadside- near the burnt vehicles so that family members looking for the car would find their loved ones not very far off.

For several weeks, you could see little piles of dirt all over Baghdad, and along the highways leading outside of the city, marked with bricks, or stones, or signs and, always, with palm leaves. The drying, wilting palm leaves were buried, standing up, to mark the graves. Some of the graves had little cardboard placards stuck carefully under a pile of stones to help family members: Adult male, adult female, 2 children in black Mercedes. Adult male, small boy in a white pick-up.

Sometimes the graves were marked by the license plate of the car the victims were in. But most of them were marked with the palm leaves.

For several weeks, there would be people stooping, all along the way, trying to decide if they knew, or recognized, any of the dead. That’s what Abu Ra’ad’s family did, all through May, June, July and August.

commondata - 01:05am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13937 of 13958)

And a blog by a US Soldier.

http://turningtables.blogspot.com/

americans like to think in terms of we...or i...or us...and them...and those...and you...they don't see both sides of the fight...they only perceive right and wrong...good and evil...america and terrorists...many many arabs think america is evil...and they think along the same terms as those americans...only in reverse...so who is right...who is misguided...is there even such a thing as good and evil...

...

see now...like i've never seen before...the blinders are off...the eyes are wide...my heart is open...gut wrenching...and horrible...a problem we caused...that we have to end...and i wonder...at what cost...how many more will die...how many more will fight...how many more will feel the unquenched disbelief at this new situation...this situation that isn't exactly panning out like we might have imagined...i here the small arms fire...i feel the explosions...the 'micro' has slapped me in the face everyday that i woke up here...it has affected me...it will continue to affect for the rest of my life...i know all to well that people...iraqis...and americans...are dying everyday...i see the smoke from the car bombs...i feel the hurt in my heart...

lchic - 03:01am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13938 of 13958)
~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

Circling DOTS

Hovering

Moving around

tooing -- froing -- stopping -- going

Moving around

Hovering

The dots inbetween -- are routine

The dots on the outer -- pouter

Dot-orama

Dot Oh! Drama

Dot Dit Dot Dit

Dotto Ditto Dotto Ditto

----

Dots on the inner are thinner

If taken out loud as you eat your dinner!

----

The dots become a part of us

Shake them up

Move them around

What makes You you and Me Me

as different as different as can be

Why the Dots of course absorbed in the brain

The dots become culture

Swallow!

No pain

-----

Hovering

Moving around

tooing -- froing -- stopping -- going

Moving around

Hovering

dR3

gisterme - 03:02am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13939 of 13958)

cantabb, bluestar -

"...Doesn’t look like the NYT Moderators have bothered to do that. YET !..."

Well, gents, they've intervened from time to time over the years. Both Showalter and Lunarchick have been banned before but were shortly allowed to resume with new monikers. Go figure.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that the NYT folks find something about this forum that they like. It's become a sort of fusion of science potpourii and a soap opera. Maybe we could call the forum 'Science Soapourii'. :)

lchic - 04:42am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13940 of 13958)
~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

go figure

it was 'forbidden' to map the name 'Afghanistan' - way back then

the paranoia was NYT in-house

when 'white dust' was from envelopes a-blowing

(18 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense