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(1917 previous messages)
- 10:06am May 1, 2002 EST (#1918
Jenin 'massacre' reduced to death toll of 56 - http://www.washtimes.com/world/20020501-5587072.htm
"JENIN, West Bank — Palestinian officials yesterday put the
death toll at 56 in the two-week Israeli assault on Jenin, dropping
claims of a massacre of 500 that had sparked demands for a U.N.
The official Palestinian body count, which is not
disproportionate to the 33 Israeli soldiers killed in the incursion,
was disclosed by Kadoura Mousa Kadoura, the director of Yasser
Arafat's Fatah movement for the northern West Bank, after a team of
four Palestinian-appointed investigators reported to him in his
Thank's God Israel will not be bombed. "Humanitarely".
- 10:51am May 1, 2002 EST (#1919
4/30/02 5:35pm , lchic
4/30/02 9:58pm , I deeply appreciate your comments, and will be
responding carefully. Sometimes, though I can't prove it, things
suggested on this thread (and perhaps worked out independently
New Strategy Set by U.S. and Saudis for Mideast Crisis By
PATRICK E. TYLER http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/01/international/middleeast/01DIPL.html
"In a new "division of labor" aimed at ending the
cycle of violence, Americans will focus on the Israeli prime
minister while Arabs will press the Palestinian leader.
4/28/02 5:46pm included this:
"I hope Friedman's right that the Israelis and
Palestinians are ready to look hard for peace. Perhaps he is. Even
at the very best, a lot of the details will have to be worked out
"In complex dealmaking, when you're trying to get
a deal together, it often happens that, even in a "friendly"
negotiation (and this isn't) each side needs its own
representative. The US is not an impartial arbiter -- but it does
have some detachment. It is allied with Israel, and everybody
"If the Palestinians had another advocate (People
from Russia and EU who are sympathetic) that might be very
constructive. There would be detachment, but sympathy too. And
lines of communication between representatives.
"Often, in these things, representative have to
"sell" their principles -- and be guided by them -- and
eventually, complex deals get closed.
"Or at least, in business and movie making, these
kinds of things often work, and for deals as complicated as movies
- closure is hardly thinkable without multiple, interlocked
negotiatins between different representatives and principles.
"Is this any simpler? If not, then this level of
complexity may be necessary.
Perhaps this is coincidence. But I hope that this thread and I
actually made a contribution.
If I've made this contribution, it may be as useful as the sum
output of many career government employees.
I need to get out of a very awkward mess, so that I can live and
function. For that, I need some help -- help that I've been asking
for for a long time, in every way I've know how to do. In this
situation, I feel that I deserve some assistance, though some have
disagreed. Some things have to happen face to face. I'll be
commenting more on :manjumicha2001
4/30/02 5:35pm and lchic
4/30/02 9:58pm , and appreciate them.
- 11:06am May 1, 2002 EST (#1920
I don't think the issue is Jennin (or how many were killed there,
for that matter) at this point. The real problem right now is the
open defiance of UN by Israel. To be fair, there is certainly an
unholy anti-jewish alliance being formed on the world stage and
Israeli government is right being nervous about UN intrusions into
However, Israeli behavior under Sharon and his hardliner friends
have been on the collision course for some time against the
collective strategic will of the major powers, including US. So the
moment of truth is approaching fast and the answer to the "big
question" will be demanded of sharon and his friends soon....the big
question, of course, is 'are you gonna give up settlements and
provide limited form of Pal. rights of return (mostly in the form of
financial compensation) in exchange for the comprehensive peace with
It might surprise some but I personally think that the land of
Judea and Samaria belongs to the jews, period. I would be happy if
Israeli government annexes those territories but before that, it
would need to find at least one cooperative arab government who will
be willing to take in those 3 million or so palestian arabs who need
to be asked to choose either between a new homeland in that arab
state or an Israeli citizenship, albeit with baggages of being a
minority in a jewish state. Of course, it ain't exactly a fair
solution but who said the world is fair, anyway. It has never been
and never will be until......
Unfortunately, though, I do not believe Sharon and his friends
are the right people to pull this off because their hands are too
stained with arrogance and hate of their own. Again even in this
dramatic solution, the Arab cooperation is essential and Sharon is
not a man of cooperation for anything unlike Rabin whom Sharon's
friends has conveniently killed off.
- 11:12am May 1, 2002 EST (#1921
What is the awkward mess and what help have you been asking?
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