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Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

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almarst2003 - 01:03pm Mar 19, 2003 EST (# 10208 of 10215)

"Surrender is now the only way to avoid a devastating, imminent onslaught that may claim thousands of lives and will have but one ultimate outcome."

Sounds much like what Hitler would declare before attacking the Poland.

rshow55 - 01:04pm Mar 19, 2003 EST (# 10209 of 10215)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

Sometimes there has to be a fight - decisions have to be made. If the fight doesn't reach a decision at the level of ideas - something people tried hard to accomplish this time - physical fighting is sometimes unavoidable.

Notions like "truth" - "legitimacy" - "honor" - "Christianity" -- "Islam" -- "justice" - - "symettry" -- are high level abstractions - in some ways - the highest levels of abstractions.

Things sort themselves out into levels - the image in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs by William G. Huitt Essay and Image : http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/regsys/maslow.html is a clear, important, and general example of a heirarchical system with controls and interfaces of mutual constraint.

Look at the picture.

"Truth" - "honor" -- "legitimacy" - and other of our high level abstractions have a role in our (quite heirarchical) logical-emotional-meaning structures quite analogous to the role of "transcendence" in the Maslow pyramid in the picture in http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/regsys/maslow.html

We're facing a question about what we have to fight about.

Some essential logical questions are here - and as human beings we should know them. Maps aren't territories. And different maps, even if perfectly valid - describe different things (weather maps, road maps, and geological maps aren't the same.)

What do we have to fight about?

What can we reasonably fight about?

Right now, the whole world is muddled, again and again, just here.

There's another reason for looking at the picture. http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/col/regsys/maslow.html -- it is a picture of a multilevel control system (pretty generally organized) with interfaces of mutual constraint, and priorities. In politics and war there are times when groups that function as assemblies have to be dealt with as they are grouped - as assemblies. There are many people who say there should be no military action - ever - that involves the killing of innocents.

That isn't possible - for unchangeable reasons. Everybody involved needs to do that best they can.

rshow55 - 01:04pm Mar 19, 2003 EST (# 10210 of 10215)
Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread.

Patterns of exception handling evolve in systems of control - and have to. It matters a great deal how well they are sorted out.

Everything considered, it seems to me that things are going well. People are being pretty careful, considering circumstances as they are. The unpopularity of this war doesn't mean it is wrong - but it surely means that the way it is conducted will be carefully watched - and reasons things are done will be carefully studied.

Workable systems - at the level of neurons - small groups - large groups - and groups of groups - tend to work themselves out - with interfaces and multiple levels of control - according to a pattern much like the picture in the Maslow reference.

We're in the process of such a resorting (you might almost call it a recrystallization) now. The old rules will still apply - with some exceptions - and I think a lot of things will work better than before. Better, I suspect, for people and nations of reasonable competence and honesty, within the human limits - all over the world.

There have to be limits on the Treaty of Westphalia rules - and of course that means limitations on the US as well. We're moving toward that - and this is a time where historically new things are happening. All in all, though there may be so much tragedy in the next few days that one could actually detect it in world mortality statistics, I'm optimistic.

almarst2003 - 01:05pm Mar 19, 2003 EST (# 10211 of 10215)

"Surrender is now the only way to avoid a devastating, imminent onslaught that may claim thousands of lives and will have but one ultimate outcome."

Sounds much like what Hitler would declare before attacking the Poland.

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New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense