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Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's
war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars"
defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make
the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an
application of science be successful? Is a militarized space
inevitable, necessary or impossible?
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(82 previous messages)
- 10:12am Mar 2, 2002 EST (#83
lchic: You didn't answer my question, as I suspected you
It is my Toastmasters because the real secret of the United
States is we are a multifaceted society where individuals make up
the institutions. Any two people with a common interest evenutally
will gravitate together and form a club, organization or
institution. It's the people stupid!
To say there is no freedom in the United States belies the fact
that just being able to participate in this forum is a freedom that
is not enjoyed everywhere on this planet.
Have we shown our human side throughout our history. Definitely.
Is this humanity the basis by which we have strived for and achieved
the wealth and power you are so jealous of. Probably!
You seem mired in the past, although I believe that there are
people in the world who revel in it.
Posit! If I can show someone in power as being immoral and I can
state that my behavior would have been moral then I'm "better" than
that individual and should be elevated in everyone's eyes. You see
this in the Truman decision to use the A-Bomb on Japan. "I'm better
than Truman since I wouldn't have dropped the bomb". Maybe this is
why you're mired in the Eisenhower and Nixon era.
BTW using the A-Bomb in Viet Nam has absolutely nothing to
do with this forum's topic, but hey you and Showalter will never be
accused of staying on point.
- 10:52am Mar 2, 2002 EST (#84
Technical discussion has been pretty dense so far.
3/1/02 6:07pm summarizes a great deal of discourse on the
previous MD thread -- was set out at MD11896 -- and hasn't been
contested on any technical details. . It was also posted on http://filmtalk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7a163/281
.. Psychwar, Casablanca, and Terror
Key References: MD20 rshow55
3/1/02 7:51pm ... MD35 manjumicha2001
3/1/02 9:10pm ... MD59 rshow55
- 11:01am Mar 2, 2002 EST (#85
As mazza and gisterme proclaim the nobel intentions of US policy
of sucrificing millions of other nation's populations in a name of
freedom and democracy, how would they explain the US support for the
bludiest dictators it helped to establish in so many places around
the World? Frequently by overturning the democratically elected
governments. Just because those didn't line up to the US "national"
interests being it OIL, strutegic geographical location or ideology?
How come the US supports the regimes which could be futher away from
democraties as Saudi Arabia or Kuwait? The countries which could
make the Taliban to look like a progressive enlightments.
While it seems easy to feed the American public at large -
probably the most ignorant and least interested or educated about
the rest of the World - with such lies, such claims, actively
promoted by mass Media and Holliwood, put the US better educated and
population in a shamefull and agonizing position. They either have
to be seen as dishonest or unpatriotic.
In my view, such an internal conflict between the proclaimed aims
and actual deeds is very dangerous and will lead to ultimate
cinicizm of the best and brightest of the nation. Unless the
Americans are indeed a different Human species.
The depth of hypocrisy came to the even brighter light after the
Sept. 11. When the majority of Americans clearly prefered less
freedom for more protection and safety. The choice they would and
still are prepered to deny from any other nation if it fits their
"interests". By economic and political pressure and even by military
My conclusion is that dangerously too many of Americans can't
open their eyes to the mirrow, can't see themself in the eyes of
others. Or do not recognise how shamefully distorted is the image
provided by the mass Media and Holliwood. As long as they got an
image they like so much better.
This may not be entirely unique for the US. However, the degree
of ignorance and arrogance toward the surrounding World is
unprecedented among developed nations.
It could be funny if not for the fact that this nation took the
mission to lead and rule the World. Even by force. Without much
There is a huge difference between technological advancement and
enlightment. Between Money and Arms and Civilization. Between Real
quality of life and "American Dream". Between the "Pop culture" and
Culture. Between Freedom to Chose and freedom to Follow.
- 11:17am Mar 2, 2002 EST (#86
Almarst, you're absolutely right. There is a huge
difference between technological advancement and enlightment.
Lies are dangerous and ugly -- and because the US is powerful,
its lies are not only dangerous and ugly to itself, but to the whole
Getting lies resolved is in part a technical , in part a
political problem -- and in part a moral problem.
Here are key questions -- and they have been bothering me. We
"normally" assume that people face facts, whenever they can.
But what if it is expensive to acknowledge
a fiction, or a fraud?
What if it is worth money to perpetrate a
fiction, or a fraud?
These are essential questions, and there are no general answers.
But the questions, as they relate to the US military-industrial
complex, American foreign policy, and American technical-political
frauds, including "missile defense" need better answers than we now
Partly that's a technical question. Partly that's a question that
will require some limited but real engagement from influentials
elsewhere in the world - people in a position to raise the
costs of lying, and make the mechanics of lying more difficult than
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