New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 08:28pm Sep 13, 2001 EST (#8994 of 9003)

rshowalter wrote WRT his proposal (gisterme 9/13/01 6:33pm) that the consequences doing nothing about Tuesday's massacre of innocent Americans weren't so bad.

showalter wrote: "Think hard about doing nothing. (about Tuesday's massacre of innocents)

Are the consequences really so bad?..."

gisterme wrote: "...What we saw last Tuesday are the consequences of doing nothing. You tell me if they're not so bad..."

showalter wrote: " Compared to what?..."

gisterme writes: Compared to peace and security in our own home, Robert.

You say you're "concerned" about what's happened. You must be the only American that's not outraged at the murder of 30+ thousand of your countrymen. Perhaps you're not an American. Now that I think about it, how would I know? I'm starting to believe that my assumption that you are is mistaken. No American would want to just sit around and wait to see if this happens again. Certainly not one that was at all in touch with reality. If you are an American, Robert, you're a member of a minscule minority. Of course, that shouldn't surprise me because such membership is quite consistent with the number of folks who'd agree with your day-to-day views.

Wow. What you've said simply boggles my mind...I can just imagine what would have happened if president Franklin D. Roosevelt had eloquently argued to congress the day after the Pearl Harbor bombing saying, "We need to seriously consider doing nothing. Let's just wait and see if the Japanese attack San Francisco...after all, we don't want to risk doing something wrong...".

Tuesday's attack is at least 15 times worse than Pearl Harbor in terms of human lives lost. Probably far worse than Pearl Harbor in terms of material damage. You want to do nothing. Your position on this is utterly ridiculous, Robert;...but, it is revealing WRT your character and nature.

You really don't mind the spilling of blood as long as it's American, do you? You praise and support almarst's whining about a couple of thousand Serbs, almost all military, who were killed in the act of slaughtering civilians, in order to to prevent their slaughtering thousands

gisterme - 08:29pm Sep 13, 2001 EST (#8995 of 9003)

continued...

You really don't mind the spilling of blood as long as it's American, do you? You praise and support almarst's whining about a couple of thousand Serbs, almost all military, who were killed in the act of slaughtering civilians, in order to to prevent their slaughtering thousands more civilians and to break the power of a dictator who had the blood of tens of thousands of innocents on his hands;...but, you could apparently care less about 30,000+ Americans who were not using tanks against civilians or burning them out of their homes or harming anyone in any way. Your hypocracy is hard to comprehend.

You don't like it when blood-spilling is stopped and you want to do nothing when it's likely to continue. I think you are evil, Robert by nearly any definition. Either that or you're just absolutely spineless.

Whichever may be your case, Robert, I'll offer up what president Roosevelt did say following that other day of infamy...

"The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself".

And finally, I'm sincerly glad you're not a world leader, Robert.

rshowalter - 08:39pm Sep 13, 2001 EST (#8996 of 9003)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Back to you -- wanted to post this:

MD8691 rshowalter 9/9/01 7:15am MD8692 rshowalter 9/9/01 7:19am

I believe that Condoleeza Rice, National Security Advisor is gisterme . That's a guess, for a lot of reasons, based on a very extensive correspondence.

Whether I'm right or not, Condoleeza Rice is now an important personage, and she has spent her entire life around, and justifying, American doctrines about nuclear weapons. http://www.webdesk.com/condoleezza-rice/

One need not doubt that Condoleezza Rice has manifest virtues. But people have experiences that are "packages of responses and experiences" - - and some virtues go with some defects, too.

Cultures and organizations are specialized to do what they do, and so are the people in them.

That can fit them well for some purposes, but can make them blind, incompetent, and sometimes cruel in the face of challenges they are not adapted for. (Or adapted to resist.) Universities can be terrible models for efficient administration, or for rational conduct. Or fine ones. Depending on details. So can university administrators (there's some very bracing literature on the behavior of college presidents, for instance.)

Here's a cautionary tale: http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/highlights/essay_kay_lostcause/index.html

Stanford University , and Oxford University , are wonderful places, similar in key ways, and subject to the same kinds of paralysis.

But such ivory towers , aren't good models, or training grounds, http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/highlights/essay_kay_lostcause/images/kay.gif

aaphrodite - 08:52pm Sep 13, 2001 EST (#8997 of 9003)

In Iraq America is seen as the GREAT SATAN

Different countries - individuals have different view points

Seems that the PAGE of the BOOK they've been reading on America is the same page ... not at all .. America presents itself in different ways to different groups of global humanity.

The kids stepping on land mines in LAOS - will grow up without legs .. but with a definate view point on their perception of America!

(6 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense