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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

rshowalter - 01:17pm Jul 19, 2001 EST (#7232 of 7236)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

A key question is -- how could human beings have gotten into such a mess? How could the US military-industrial complex, and their paid supporters and ideological allies, have gone so wrong, and stayed so wrong, for so long?

A related question is How could corruption, both moral and financial, occur in this situation?

Discussion of the Osprey scandal (and that is what it has been, and remains) on this thread can, I beliee, explain much of how such problems can occur.

Military organizations are coercive by nature -- and work not only on commands, but on people who "get with the program." For military reasons, this can be essential. But it sets up a potential for corrution - and for sustained mistakes, that needs to be taken seriously.

If you know how military operations, guarded by classification, work, and how contractors are chosen and pressured, it is perfectly reasonable that very large amounts of money have been diverted, for a long time, into paths that are not in the national interest - and into paths that could subvert american institutions, including both press institutions and political parties.

rshowalter - 01:17pm Jul 19, 2001 EST (#7233 of 7236)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

MD978-986 rshowalter 3/14/01 5:22am ...

MD2368 rshowalter 4/18/01 5:06pm ... The Osprey program, alone, exceeds Russia's current indebtedness. 12 billion dollars have been spent to build 8 airplanes that cannot, as of now, be flown. . . . Peace would make a great deal of economic and emotional sense, from many points of view.

MD2393 rshowalter 4/19/01 10:32am

MD2405 rshowalter 4/19/01 5:31pm ... Can the military-industrial complex evade clear answers, and, in practical effect, lie to the American people? I believe that the Osprey affair shows that it can do so, and shows the essential means. . . . Casts of characters are chosen. . . . . Someone of "total authority and integrity" lies, or evades in a way that has the effect of a lie, and does so in public. . . . And he is trusted.

MD2411 rshowalter 4/20/01 5:58am

The Osprey situation relates to some background of my own, http://www.wisc.edu/rshowalt/klinerec ~ http://www.wisc.edu/rshowalt/klineul ... and I was in some ways gratified to see standard fluid mechanical knowledge, especially regarding turbulence, attacked in a laughably incompetent fashion in FLYING INTO TURBULENCE By: Peter Martin http://www.intellnet.org/news/articles/peter.martin.flying.into.turbulence.html MD7055 rshowalter 7/15/01 12:47pm

But at another level I found Martin's statements about fluids, which are wildly misleading, unfortunate. People giving this nation advice about war and peace are, quite often, deluded, incompetent, and cocksure to a point that I find hard to distinguish, in morals and practical effect, from treason.

descripto - 01:22pm Jul 19, 2001 EST (#7234 of 7236)

rshowalter - 01:17pm Jul 19, 2001 EST (#7232 of 7233)

A:

This forum is NOT about the Osprey issue.

B: The MIC establishment has been around far longer then the last year. Iron Triangle Politics have existed before he the gave his speech.

I find your written positions to be well, mired in your own self doubts.

descripto - 01:24pm Jul 19, 2001 EST (#7235 of 7236)

rshowalter -

It is not necessary to highlight EVERY post you make, nor is it necessary to highlight everbody elses threads ALL THE TIME. Your positions would have more impact if they had a short and strong point to make rather then this never ending thread you wish to ride us all on.

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