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Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 07:24pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5580 of 5636)

rshowalter wrote: "...Why don't you guys get a coherent case against peace and accomodation with the Russians together, and I'll be back in a while?..."

That's because WE'RE not the ones trying to make a case against peace, Robert, and nobody, and I'd say especially the Russians, wants to be "accomodated".

Why do you have so little respect for the Russians, Robert? Do you think they're wanting to gather crumbs from the floor? Perhaps you think they'll offer you a job if you kiss enough a!s. Give me a break. Whatever the Russians may be, they are not whiners and snivellers and surely have no more respect for that kind of behavior than anybody else does...and why should we "accomodate" anybody? What an arrogant thing you've said there, Robert.

We are treating the Russians and the Russians are treating us with due respect in the international arena. A relationship is being built, and judging from the meeting between the two presidents last weekend, I'd say the Russians are quite able to take care of themselves without "accomodation".

If you feel guilty because you live in such an un-commodious place as the good old USA then you should go someplace else where you can feel better about yourself and the rest of the citizens can feel better about you. Please don't go to China, though. You wouldn't last a week there...and I seriously doubt that the Russians would even let you in if they had read all the crap you've posted on this forum. They honor loyalty as much as anybody else; but only losers honor condescension.

gisterme - 07:40pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5581 of 5636)

Lou Mazza wrote: "...Only then can we put aside those passions that have dictated are behavior for the last 56,818 years. <== (I dare anyone to question that number)..."

Huh? Who can question a number? I DO like 72,992.3 pretty well too. Also -22/3; but especially 38.444^3. Do you question those numbers?

What's with all this nonsense about questioning numbers, Lou, especially ones that are attached to unverifiable claims? Questioning such would be pretty silly wouldn't it?

rshowalter - 07:45pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5582 of 5636)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I feel proud of the United States in many, many ways. I think on nuclear policy since the 1950's and especially since the fall of the Soviet Union, things could have gone a great deal better, in a particular area. And I think that almarst expresses some pretty clear points, that I think you should think of with some sympathy, rather than (so far as I can tell) try to ignore.

Shortly after that wonderful meeting between President Bush and President Putin(and I thought it was good, too, and said so) -- Putin made a point of saying that if the US moved unilaterally, he could and would MIRV his missiles. He also was in contact with China, to make sure that balances were maintained.

I'm not sure it was what Bush expected, but maybe.

Now, of course I don't know who almarst is, but if you look at what he's written, he may be a fair analog of some patterns of Russian thought.

If he is, he's actually fairly open minded about missile defense if other interdependent issues are adressed -- namely, if the United States stops acting in ways that look predatory and unjustifiable to him, for reasons he's explained.

rshowalter - 07:52pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5583 of 5636)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

gisterme , do you have any objection to the NYT editorial on nuclear matters today?

Invitation to an Arms Race http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/20/opinion/20WED2.html

______

Almarst works at things pretty hard, as you do. MD5519 rshowalter 6/20/01 10:30am

gisterme - 07:53pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5584 of 5636)

Thanks for the explanation of the number, Lou. That's quite a piece of trivia; but I expect I couldn't prove or disprove it without doing a lot of work. I'll just take your word for it. Glad I didn't question it. :-)

But still, just because Stanley Kubric picked that date for his hominid scene, do you think that has anything to do with ancient reality?

lunarchick - 07:56pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5585 of 5636)
lunarchick@www.com

Lots of catch-up reading to arrive here, wonder if George Johnson was an only child .. he's so inventive with his invisible playmates, is it lonesome in El Alamo :)

rshowalter - 08:01pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5586 of 5636)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

gisterme , if, from time to time, I'm a little impolite, it is still true that I'm working for accomodations (and we need some here -- something President Bush seems to know.)

MD5521rshowalter 6/20/01 10:39am ... MD5522 rshowalter 6/20/01 10:45am
Were, I feel, entirely respectful, and MD5522 included this:

"For example, at some very significant levels, Russia and the United States (and Russia, the United States, and the European and Asian countries in interaction together) seem reasonably close to fully satisfactory accomodations that involve much less nuclear risk than now exists.

"At some other levels, also very significant, there are bitter, rigid, intractable impasses.

MD5523 rshowalter 6/20/01 11:02am ... MD5525 almarst-2001 6/20/01 11:04am
MD5525 rshowalter 6/20/01 11:06am

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