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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

mazza9 - 05:54pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5560 of 5568)

Rshowalter

I'm curious. Is this a science forum on the efficacy of a missile defense system or is it the "RSHOWALTER Show"?.

I detect a bias regarding the US and its murderous way. History shows us to be no less nor no more murderous than any of our fellow travelers on this globe.

I spent four years in SAC during the "height of the Cold War" and was intimately involved in the Operational Planning function of the 5th Bomb Wing in Minot North Dakota. I knew and soldiered with airmen who had gained their wings and fought for their country during WWII, Korea, Viet Nam and the Cold war all over the globe. I would suggest to you that the 20th Century was by every measure the most bloody in our long history, (mankind's that is). I believe, (OPINION!), that when measured against the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and that ilk, (approximately 100 million lost in the most heinous fashion. Ever see the photos of the children who were gassed by Saddam) that the US would appear to be as pure as the driven snow.

What's your point?

LouMazza

rshowalter - 06:03pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5561 of 5568)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

You make my point pretty eloquently yourself.

As pure as the driven snow --- willing to destroy millions, threatening it very actively?

MD4458 rshowalter 6/20/01 1:17pm

THREATS TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS: The Sixteen Known Nuclear Crises of the Cold War, 1946-1985 by David R. Morgan http://scienceforpeace.sa.utoronto.ca/WorkingGroupsPage/NucWeaponsPage/Documents/ThreatsNucWea.html

CIA's Worst-Kept Secret by Martin A. Lee May 16, 2001 http://www.consortiumnews.com/051601a.html

rshowalter - 06:04pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5562 of 5568)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

We should make peace -- acknowledge what has been done -- and stop acting as we've acted.

rshowalter - 06:07pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5563 of 5568)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

The US should not act according to the same standards as "Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein and that ilk" and now, far too often, in far too many ways, it does.

Search almarst and read many of his references. He has reasons for his concerns.

gisterme - 06:12pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5564 of 5568)

almarst wrote: "...Am I wrong on this account?"

I wouldn't quite call the movement of the Serbian army into Kossovo using tanks and helecoptors against unarmed civilians "non-agressive", almarst. You seem to keep forgetting what started that whole thing. The Serb army moved before NATO did, at the command of their tyrant Milosevic who is now being prosecuted for war crimes.

Now that Milosevic is gone (kicking, screaming and lying all the way) Serbia has already begun to normalize and will most likely get all the help they need in rebuilding. That Hitler-like tongue that stirred, re-awakened and magnified ancient hatreds is now silent. If the Albanians persist in their campaign of hatred against Serbs then the other shoe will fall without a doubt.

rshowalter - 06:13pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5565 of 5568)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Force may sometimes be necessary -- and the US has plenty of it, but a sense of proportion and costs is necessary.

We can do a lot better than we're doing.

It is no credit to the United States when a senior statesman can deserve what Friedman said of Kissinger, the dean of American, and certainly Republican, foreign policy -- that he "sometimes makes Machiavelli seem like one of the sisters of mercy."

We can to better than that -- and should on our own.

And other countries, for their own protection, and to maintain their own sense of decency, ought to insist that we do. And do enough staff work, and take enough care, and be coordinated enough, so that it happens.

mazza9 - 06:14pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5566 of 5568)

What has been done?

Do you think we shouldn't have fought the Kaiser, Hitler, Tojo, Stalin, Mussolino, etc etc. Throughout history there has been this coterie of individuals who somehow believe that they are the "Chosen".

The HBO special "Conspiracy" shocks us as we are "treated" to the cavalier fashion with which the Nazis planned the "evacutation" of European Jews.

Yet, as the old folk song intones"..when will they ever learn...?"

Are you suggesting that if we just mend our ways the death and slavery in the Sudan will cease? the slaughter of the Hutu and Tutsis' will stop? The Muslin rebels in the Phillipines and Indonesia will be placated? The Washington senators will stop hating those "Damn Yankees"?

Again, What does this have to do with missile defense?

LouMazza

rshowalter - 06:16pm Jun 20, 2001 EST (#5567 of 5568)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

gisterme's right that the army move was agressive.

What about using iron bombs, from 30,000 feet, with no pretense of being able to aim them well?

And what about what was apparent falsification of satellite records? Order of magnitude errors on body counts are hard to come by in good faith.

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