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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 03:03pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5107 of 5115)

rshowalter wrote: "...The europeans may be unenthisiastic, in part, because the CIA fed them, for twenty years, very biased, doctored, incorrect intelligence "data" on the nature of the Soviet threat and intentions -- to their considerable cost, and considerable risk. That can't be escaping them now..."

Hahahahaha. Whew. Robert that's got to be the wackiest most condescendeing thing you've written on this thread. Those poor helpless Europeans...just imagine...they're waiting for the next CIA report to come in so they can decide what to do today. Wow.

That really IS an arrogant thing to say, Robert, compounded by the fact that it's a LIE. Forget the fictional Maj. Strasser Robert, your comment sounds more like the very real Herr Goebbels.

rshowalter - 03:05pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5108 of 5115)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I wonder if they think it is a lie.

And I wonder how they'd feel about the "you believe US -- well, that's your lookout" stance?

On the satellite photos of "new burials" -- that was fiction, wasn't it -- if a mistake -- how was the mistake made?

rshowalter - 03:08pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5109 of 5115)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I've been wrong many times in my life, of course. -- But these things can be checked.

Sometimes the information can be suppressed -- or the checking blocked -- but that's getting harder than it used to be.

fritzi24 - 03:09pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5110 of 5115)

rshowalter:

Contemptous attitudes indeed! Your alternative is for this country to bend over, spread its cheeks, and then say thank you to anything the european politicos dish out. If refusing to be lectured to by politicians from Brussels, Paris and Bonn (1) about not adopting Kyoto - when none of these countries have adopted it either, (2) about establishing a missile shield to defend OUR cities - when the European "allies" yearly reduce their own defense budgets while sheltering under the U.S. defense umbrella, (3) about expecting them to handle "problems" in their own back yard (viz. the Balkans) instead of expecting American GI's to get their backsides sniped at, (4) about the nation's preference for retaining capital punishment - when European governments now pass legislation legalizing euthanizing those whom the socialist medical systems no longer can treat (viz. the Netherlands), and (5) when Europoean politicos proselytize and preach about "European values" - and then bludgeon any state where a DEMOCRATIC ELECTION places right-of-center parties into the government (viz. Austria and Italy) - is showing "contempt" to oue European "friends", then I am proud to speak "contempt" fluently and encourage others to do so. "Bully Bush", "Attila" and "Ignorant Cowboy" are just some of the titles the French and German press labelled our president. If they have no intention of showing respect, just why the bloody hell should we give better? And since when do other countries tell us what we are allowed to do in OUR defense - when they've been hiding in our shadow for over fifty years. Rank hypocrites, nothing more. Finally, if talking back makes the U.S. "appear Nazi-like", they should be not-so-politely reminded that a great many American boys died liberating them from the original Nazi menace - a menace many of them cosily accomodated themselves to.

rshowalter - 03:12pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5111 of 5115)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Never said that anybody involved was perfect. But it has been a long time since World War II - and a lot has happened since. The nuclear terror, a major concern of mine, happened, at almost every step, with the US taking the aggressive role -- amidst a great many deceptions.

We have a mess. Fighting isn't an answer.

And working to make enemies, as the US so often does, and to manufacture threats -- isn't such a good idea.

rshowalter - 03:16pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5112 of 5115)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I also notice that, when I mention issues about Bush's military record, or the history of nuclear threats, or reasonably longstanding, strong association between the Bush family (and CIA --- and the right wing of the Republican party) with Nazi influences, and philosophical positions very close indeed to Nazism, and tactics very close to the tactics the Nazis used -- your response is not to say -- "you're wrong", so much -- as to say "you're arrogant."

gisterme - 03:22pm Jun 14, 2001 EST (#5113 of 5115)

rshowalter wrote: "...I've heard that in Yugoslavia, the same thing happened, -- satellite photos were doctored to stampede the allies into making decisions that otherwise might not have been made. There are some very angry Russians about that one, and some of our European allies can't be too pleased either..."

More Goebbels emulation, Robert. Why?

I've heard that you can predict the future by interpreting chicken entrails too. Does that make it so?

This is just another one of those unverifiable conspiracy claims you seem so fond of.

You give US intelligence gatering capability way more credit than is due. If the Serbs hadn't put all those rubber tanks and fake artillery out there to skew the facts, the intelligence might have been better. It may come as a surprise to you, Robert, but the CIA and other intelligence gathering agencies in the US or anywhere else are not omnipresent or infallable.

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