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Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

rshowalter - 08:36am May 27, 2001 EST (#4247 of 4466)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Almarst , I've had trouble responding to some of the rage in some of your postings - rage I respect, and sometimes share. I've been wondering what I might usefully say. I'll say this. The people who listened to the sermon in MD777: rshowalter 2/24/01 9:25am are not rapists, nor is the man who gave that sermon. They are not only selfish. They are not humanly unconcerned. The congregation was and is mostly Republican, and includes leaders of the Republican Party in Virginia. Without asking you to forget your anger, and the reasons for it, I hope you can remember that, too.

Even so, many of the reasons you have for anger are good reasons. What the US government has done, often under control of a secret minority, does not match all there is - and much of the good that there is, about Americans.

The situation is complex, rather than simple, and too conflicted for simple justice. MD818: rshowalter 3/1/01 4:32pm .... without forgetting what has been done at all, and hoping for both justice and better accomodation in the future, we'll have to try for redemptive solutions - not perfect justice here. The situation is too complicated for that.

I'll be traveling for a while.

rshowalter - 08:40am May 27, 2001 EST (#4248 of 4466)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

Gina Kolata wrote a great, sobering article, on patterns of self deception, and group deception, also important as we try to sort out issues of nuclear balances, and disarmament: rshowalter "Science in the News" 5/26/01 9:06pm

applez101 - 05:39pm May 27, 2001 EST (#4249 of 4466)

'Bye all, hitting the road in a Kerouackian routine. Intermittent contact from now on. Carry on the good fight! :)

rshowalt - 09:16am May 28, 2001 EST (#4250 of 4466)

This is progress !

U.S. Plans Offer to Russia to End ABM Treaty Dispute

By DAVID E. SANGER and THOM SHANKER http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/28/world/28MISS.htm

My Memorial day is going to be busy.

Perhaps we can arrange things, with care, so that new deaths from war, after so many, can be many fewer - in keeping with high ideals we all share.

rshowalt - 05:16pm May 28, 2001 EST (#4251 of 4466)

Could approaches coming into focus on this thread also be of use in the Middle East?

#738 "What Causes Americans to be brainwashed? http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee81446/743 (an interesting thread that is sometimes off-topic) included this:

" After reading the messages on this board it is obvious that several of you are quite knowledgable regarding the current conditions in the middle east. Also the events leading up to the present stalemate.

" What do you think can be done to resolve this crisis before we get WW III?

and comments continued to #744.

I said I thought that, with resources, the answer could be "yes."

almarst-2001 - 11:45pm May 28, 2001 EST (#4252 of 4466)

rshowalter 5/25/01 9:15pm

gisterme asked:

" How could "nuclear safety for the world" NOT be in Russia's interest? What planet do you think they're on? How is Russia's inerest served by keeping the world in a condition of nuclear un-safety? "

Robert: "I happen to agree, gisterme , I think Russia has some incorrect (but not, from where they sit, irrational) fears. "

Me:

How about just "safety" for all?

Specifically, "What will then protect the next Hanoi, or Bagdad, or Pana City, or Belgrad ... or Moscow or any other city against US's stealth bombers, aircraft cariers, cruise missiles, DU munitions, clustered and smart bombs and planned satelite-based lasers? Protect their citizens' water and power supply, schools, hospitals, bridges, roads, workplaces, children and themselve?"

Who and how will guarantee their safety, freedom and independance? When there is no more MAD?

almarst-2001 - 12:05am May 29, 2001 EST (#4253 of 4466)

rshowalter 5/27/01 8:36am

Robert,

I am very sorry if understood that ALL Americans are rapists.

My initial inquary was to understand the role the socio-economical system may play in shapimh the what I called the "national genom". The logic was that:

- Any socio-economical system promotes and rewards the particular type of a human, the most adaptive to this system and

- Those raized to the top, try to affect the system to their advantage, closing the loop.

If the above is true, then the next questions I had was:

- What are the values of American system? and

- What type of a human those values would be most attractive and why?

In no way did I imply that ALL Aericans would be positively adaptive to those values. However, NOT ALL GERMANS WHERE NAZIS EITHER.

almarst-2001 - 12:17am May 29, 2001 EST (#4254 of 4466)

U.S. Plans Offer to Russia to End ABM Treaty Dispute

By DAVID E. SANGER and THOM SHANKER http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/28/world/28MISS.htm

Isn't it the old play to side then with China against Russia or now - with Russia against China?

Somehow that seems pretty convenient to me once the China is declared the "Enemy #1".

The one thing I can tell for sure: "The Americans learned a lot of "smarts" from British first and from Nazis later."

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