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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 12:10pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3968 of 3989)

rshowalter wrote: "...gisterme's "it is not in any way our fault" stance is one that very few people outside the US are likely to sympathize with..."

I'll bet you wouldn't be willing to move to any of those places to demonstrate your solidarity with their "perceptions", Robert. Contrary to what you seem to believe, US wealth is not the result of raping other nations. US wealth is the result of invention, innovation, good management and hard work by Americans, primarilly using American resources. If we are "haves" it is because we have earned it. You don't have to feel so guilty about it Robert; but if you do, be a leader...take the point...send half your bank account to Saddam. He'll be sure the people of Iraq are benefitted; but if you don't trust Saddam, then just send half your money to the UN. The positive impact of your contribution to the folks in Iraq should be immediately obvious (uness some UN minister decides to get new lug-nuts for his Ferrari instead).

rshowalter - 02:52pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3969 of 3989)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I've never felt that much of a percentage of US wealth, or even any in the aggregate (balancing plusses and minuses), was "taken away" from other nations.

Nor do I feel guilty about US wealth -- nor do I think I've ever implied that I was guilty about US wealth.

Nor am I especially sympathetic to Saddam. To the contrary.

I do say that the US is percieved as a bully by many outside the US -- and sometimes for good reason.

In the Iraqi case:

There are something like half a million dead because of sanctions that the US, more than any other country, has taken the lead in initiating and enforcing.

I wrote:

"... gisterme's "it is not in any way our fault" stance is one that very few people outside the US are likely to sympathize with..."

I was talking about the deaths.

Do you think I'm wrong about the perceptions of many outside the US?

rshowalter - 02:59pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3970 of 3989)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

If the US takes actions, according to certain "rules" then can it, and should it, then be indifferent about the human consequences?

If many die or have their lives blighted, can we be indifferent

" so long as we were playing by the rules?"

That's how it often looks.

almarst-2001 - 03:07pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3971 of 3989)

gisterme 5/16/01 12:10pm

I am sure all past Imperial powers could use that claim. If you aske them, none have raped their colonies.

And many "successfull" capitalists would aggree probably with you as well.

The hard work some times may create the wealth. But rather as exception then rule.

Is seems in reality what creates the wealth is luck, aggressiveness, insencibilty, concentration on the wealth-creation as as life-goal, hyper-ego, practicism, conformism, the lack of shame, readiness to exploit the people and the situation to the maximum for the self-gain.

In short, as a rule , the so called legitimate wealth of an individual comes to those who desire and value it the most, with some luck, time and persistence.

I am not sure about the accumilation of the wealth by the country. It surelly helps if the ordinary people feel they can gain by working hard and abiding the law. That the results of their work will stay with them and be passed to their children. also importand, the weather, the geography, the envoronment, the natural resources, the immigration policies.

But from here to extrapolate the tremendows and disproportional wealth of the US is a stretch.

You may be interested to look at woprld's statistic on life expectancy, health care, education, crime, suicide rate, and many other things assumed to define the quality of life among the nations.

Would you be surprised not to find the US as the leader?

I would also be interested to see a statistic indicating the contribution to the US GDP by the immigrants - the ready pool of mostly educated and hard-work dedicated healthy adults.

almarst-2001 - 03:20pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3972 of 3989)

But the debate about US "guilt" is not to the point.

Whatewer have caused the situation, the US today is huge military and economical power. With total lack of sencitivity when it insists its ready to compete with others, but on the equal bases, including small poor countries.

You can't be so naive not to understand the consequences.

I dont send my money to Saddam. But I do not want my tax-money to be spend on killing Iraqis or Serbians or any other people who did not treatened or harmed me in any way.

Also I wish, the US cuts its military spending to the level needed to defend this country in a time of a peace, and not a penny more. Why should I pay for services - the "protection of US interests" I don't understand or given some credible explanation for?

What is wrong with that?

rshowalter - 03:23pm May 16, 2001 EST (#3973 of 3989)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

almarst - the main reason that the US is wealthy is that it has a society that, for all its faults, cooperates well on average, and does things well in economic ways, on average.

Exploitation isn't nearly as big an explainer of US wealth as you think. For primative economies, exploitation arguments can be very close to exact -- but for very complex, wealthy systems like the US, exploitation doesn't explain much.

However, gross disparities of income level, however they happen, can be undesirable from many points of view.

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