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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

possumdag - 08:32am May 14, 2001 EST (#3824 of 3838)
Possumdag@excite.com

Seems to be continuing - no worries mate!

almarst-2001 - 09:17am May 14, 2001 EST (#3825 of 3838)

lunarchick 5/14/01 1:15am

"that a current 'friend' may be a future enemy."

Good that you put the 'friend' in quotes. Those kind of friends are surely guaranteed to become an enemy once they sense they can gain more by acting in this way.

As in an old Russian say: "God. Save me please from this kind of the friends. And with enemies I will manage myself"

almarst-2001 - 09:25am May 14, 2001 EST (#3826 of 3838)

artemis130 5/14/01 1:04am

"Who vehemently defends Israel, if not American Jews, democrat or otherwise?"

The Israel defend the people who live and die over there. Not the money-career-fame-making political speen-masters and "intellectual elite" of Mr. Thomas Friedman type here in US.

If only could you know how little do I care or believe those "Israel Defenders" from the Washington who come once-a year to the land to "show'em the money".

almarst-2001 - 10:14am May 14, 2001 EST (#3827 of 3838)

On MacVain.

Here is the death-deserving terrorist, feared by the US Government mostly not by what he did, but for why he did it.

Compare this terrorist with some American "heroes" like MacCain or Kerry or handreds if not thousends of a kind, soaked with blood of millions of innocent civilians thousends of miles from US.

It is always much easier to create the monster then to controll it after.

almarst-2001 - 10:24am May 14, 2001 EST (#3828 of 3838)

On Chechnia.

Here the US-led "human rights defenders" cry fool and demand sanctions. Did they do better in Korea, Vietnam or Algeer? Didn't they support the Indonesian attrocities aganst "leftists"? Or South American dictators (thank you the School Of Americas") Don't they support the Turky "treatment" of Kurds? The Colombian "war on drags"?

Did the leading "human rights defender" forgot that just some 40 years ago this "mother of all democraties" practiced appartheid and linching?

I wonder how the word "Decency" rings in the West. I am not sure we share the same understanding and the meaning of the most basic moral definitions here.

gisterme - 12:07pm May 14, 2001 EST (#3829 of 3838)

possumdag wrote: "...On evil - it has many and varied definitions depending on the cultural norms. Here the Golden Rule can be a measure...."

That's a very sensible statement possumdag, at least in my view. I'd like to add that although there may be varied definitions of evil, the bottom line result of its application quite consistant...human suffering.

rshowalter - 12:08pm May 14, 2001 EST (#3830 of 3838)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

almarst-2001 All the points you're making are good points. All valid emotions -- and arguments -- important to express. Important to reasonably accomodate. Worthy of respect. Arguments that I wish MANY all around the world, and MANY in the United States, would consider, and not only keep in mind but, in balance, and with a sense of context.

almarst asks a question I find wrenching, but very basic:

" I wonder how the word "Decency" rings in the West. I am not sure we share the same understanding and the meaning of the most basic moral definitions here.

We need to make sure of our understandings - both where they are the same, and where they are different. The most basic things, I believe, are the same. But there are grevious inconsistencies (I'm not trying to either equate them or excuse them) for all concerned. Almarst , I'm not sure, but perhaps we'd agree between us on those inconsistencies, and the weight of the bad consequences (and I'd say "guilt") on both sides. I can't be sure of that, of course.

I personally would like a chance to apologize for the actions of my country toward Russia since WWII - but when I say that, I'm speaking for myself, not for others. rshowalter 4/1/01 2:14pm

Some points I feel personally about, that fit with some of what you're saying and, I believe, feeling, are set out in connection to movies in 3383-3395
3383: rshowalter 5/6/01 8:36pm ... 3384: rshowalter 5/6/01 8:37pm
3385: rshowalter 5/6/01 8:41pm
The movies are West Side Story , which is a modern retelling of Romeo and Juliet ; Dr. Strangelove ; Mary Poppins ; and, in my view perhaps the richest of all movies, Casablanca.

I stand by what I said in 3383-3385 - and hope more people come to see some of the things I tried to point out. There are some things I wish Americans could come to see - there is a reason why Americans are often hated elsewhere -- and American need to see that, and take some steps to fix what they can about that. All the same, the implications aren't easy, and the movies don't deal with what happens after them -- or with some of the most difficult human emotions that people have and have to deal with.

After the deaths in West Side Story , how do the people involved go on? How do they grieve, how do they accomodate, and can they, in any workable sense, make a better peace?

After the nuclear destruction of Dr. Stragelove , one hates to think about what humans might do.

. Mary Poppins deals with real people and emotions, but not with the deepest and most visceral kinds of anger, not with death, and not with the harshest, most compelling kinds of grief. Casablaca is simplified by its war context -- but one can ask : what happens after the war. And we know sad, ugly, real answers.

Dealing with the emotions of grief, and loss, and anger is both wrenching, and in some unavoidable ways, time consuming. Americans might say "forget it, and go on" -- speaking to others --but they'd never say that to people they really knew.

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