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Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

rshowalter - 07:12pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3451 of 3480)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I wonder how many people in the world (in America, and elsewhere) would sign on to the "rules of war" you seem to have, for the undeclared competition that was the Cold War- a war predominantly of America's making.

We were the agressor in the Cold War -- again and again and again.

Not everybody in the world will think that all right, nor find the missile defense fraud comforting.

possumdag - 07:16pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3452 of 3480)
Possumdag@excite.com

Gave screen writers and playwrites ammunition!

gisterme - 07:16pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3453 of 3480)

rshowalter wrote: "...there's no particular reason for the US to lead -- it could very well follow..."

Of course it could follow, Robert, but why should it? Who would you suggest be the "leader" instead? Congo?

rshowalter - 07:21pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3454 of 3480)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

The United States, to be a leader for peace, would have to take steps to establish reasonable trust.

The current administration has been throwing away the world status of the United States with terrible speed.

If the U.S. set out what happened -- in a way where the facts were clear (not how people happened to feel about them, but the facts themselves) and then said --

"All right -- where do we go from here?"

then a LOT could be accomplished, and very many nations, all over the world, would cooperate as best they could. That would be leadership.

But as long as the U.S. lies on so many subjects -- it sets up a situation where the only reasonable thing the rest of the world can do is treat the US, internationally, and a pathological case-- and sort out reasonable accomodations themselves.

rshowalter - 07:24pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3455 of 3480)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

There's a lot to like about the United States, and everybody knows it. A future leader of N. Korea - a nation which wants to see mass death in America -- took his kid to Disneyland. People know the good things about America.

The Cold War involved a tremendous amount of horror, and so many lies that it has polluted the whole world. We should fix it.

The whole world would respect than leadership.

One shuck after another, all presented with elaborate and far fetched false pretenses, which is what a lot of Bush administration action looks like to the rest of the world -- that's no way to lead, and that's doing no service to the United States of America.

gisterme - 07:40pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3456 of 3480)

rshoalter wrote: "...And especially in the Cold War case, where for more than a decade the Soviet Union was trying to find ways to coexist -- to make peace, and was denied any chance to do so on a basis that involved many public lies..."

Um, Robert, did you forget that during all that time the USSR was continuing to OCCUPY EASTERN EUROPE which is what the war was about?

If I sat down next to you at the bar, then reached over and took your full pitcher of beer, what would you do? Demand that I give it back no doubt. But then I say to you "I'm not giving back this pitcher of beer, but don't worry about it, Robert, just forget it. Let's be friends."...I'd be trying to make peace all right, but I'd still have your beer. Would you deny me a chance to make peace (and keep your beer) under those conditions?

I would be eligible to claim the same sympathy from you in that case that you say is due the USSR based on the above quote. Silly. The cold war wouldn't have happened if the USSR had withdrawn from Eastern Europe after WWII. There probably wouldn't even be a NATO today. Just like the beer crisis wouldn't take place between us if I didn't steal your beer. :-)

rshowalter - 07:42pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3457 of 3480)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

The analogies you're offering don't begin to fit what was done.

gisterme - 07:45pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3458 of 3480)

rshowalter wrote: "...And millions of people probably died unnecessarily, and many millions have had their lives blighted..."

Just think, Robert...If the USSR had not persisted in occupying Eastern Europe, none of that would have happned.

gisterme - 07:54pm May 7, 2001 EST (#3459 of 3480)

rshowalter wrote: "...while polarizing the whole world for no good purposes I can see but to conceal past lies, and enrich a military-industrial complex that has nothing valid to do..."

Robert, don't you think that enabelig the elimination of 4,500 US strategic warheads along with their delivery systems would be a more valid task for the m-i complex than building more offensive weapons? Especially if that labor could provide a tool that could be used to acheive total strategic disarmament? You haven't commented on the approach to a solution that I proposed above. Why not?

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