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Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

gisterme - 06:18pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3185 of 3207)

lunarchick wrote: "...As a Manager how did he [Bush] manage the China Situation: ..."

Okay, lunarchick. Here's the scenario:

While hot-dogging, a young poorly trained Chinese pilot accidently collides with your unarmed surveillance aircraft that is flying straight and level on automatic pilot in international airspace. The Chinese aircraft crashes. Your aircraft nearly crashes, but manages an astounding emergency landing on a Chinese island, saving the lives of all 24 souls aboard.

The Chinese government insists that the collision is due to intentional action on your part. It insists that your aircraft has no right to invoke international rules governing aircraft in distress because the aircraft did not try to communicate in accordance with those rules (even though you have recordings of a dozen "maydays" from your aircraft on the correct emergency channel). The Chinese government refuses to release your 24 people and says it may press criminal charges against the pilot. They refuse to return the aircraft their pilot damaged. They demand that you appologize and accept responsibility for all those charges, under those conditions. They demand that you say in effect:

"The United States of America apologizes and accepts responsibility because your untrained, unskilled or undisciplined pilot flew into our aircraft in international airspace, killing himself, destroying your aircraft and nearly destroying ours along with our 24 people. We also apologize because our pilot did not follow international "mayday" rules for aircraft in distress prior to the emergency landing on your island."

Oh, by the way, you get all this information a bit at a time over several days.

Now, lunarchick, how do YOU manage that scenario?

rshowalter - 06:27pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3186 of 3207)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

gisterme 5/3/01 6:18pm

I think everything you state is right as stated.

But from the Chinese point of view, it is incomplete. China did some very serious, very highly motivated "grandstading."

Something the US has done on some other occasions.

China did so to use the leverage that they found at hand to set out issues that they cared about.

I can see the US point of view, as you express it. But from the point of view of many other players, Lunarchick states a fair case, too.

The surveillance plane was very unwelcome and when China found a way to show that, it did so.

The mainland Chinese are now "nationalist Chinese" too, and it wasn't just their government that felt that way.

lunarchick - 06:31pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3187 of 3207)
lunarchick@www.com

You have a short memory. Prior to the plane incident, Bwsh was calling China a rogue State. I have a posting way-above on this. It was my bet that the pilot was instructed to go for the US plane.

Chinese people tell me that China regards it's boundary as going 500 miles out into the Pacific, not 12. On this basis they regard the USA military as trespassers in their air space.

Wouldn't you have expected the Chinese to be annoyed at by the rude and dis-respectful manner of the US President intent on finding that 'rogue' State.

The US qualm with China was merely one related to trade. The US wanted 'most favoured status' changed to 'competitive' ... why not be up front and just say they wanted it changed, rather than be stupid and risk 'war' over a simple matter of commerce.

The Chinese saw him as a puppy 'wet behind the ears' barking at them. Training dogs is a simplistic and ancient art, whereas Firey DRAGONS especially when hidden, are more artful.

rshowalter - 06:32pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3188 of 3207)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I've commented on the hypocrisy and imperfection of some of China's responses in this situation in this thread. All the same, hypocrisy, imperfection, and posing aren't unique to China.

rshowalter - 06:33pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3189 of 3207)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

"artful" is an ambiguous word.

It would be a better world if we had less to fight with China about. Both sides might have to change some to bring that about.

gisterme - 06:37pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3190 of 3207)

lunarchick wrote: "...It was my bet that the pilot was instructed to go for the US plane..."

Okay lunarchick, add that impression to the scenario. How would you have managed it better?

rshowalter - 06:42pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3191 of 3207)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

After the plane went down, it was a mess. And maybe managed as well as it could have been, within the usual human limits.

rshowalter - 06:47pm May 3, 2001 EST (#3192 of 3207)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

THE FEMALE OF THE SPECIES by Rudyard Kipling http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee79f4e/1222

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