New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?

Read Debates, a new Web-only feature culled from Readers' Opinions, published every Thursday.

rshow55 - 09:42pm Feb 1, 2002 EST (#11175 of 11188)

Call it 2 megawatts - and 24' diameter beam (at the source) -- that's 686 watts/cm2 at the source for 100% absorbtion.

That's 13.7 watts/cm2 for 2% absorbtion, or 1.37 watts/cm2 for .2% absorbtion at the source.

Now how small is the optical dispersion over a hundred miles?

A factor of 50 reduction of intensity, maybe, with pretty good optics, and pretty low absorbtion?

Not to mention problems with aiming, which are far from trivial.

The ABL is easy to counter with reflective coatings. And a reflective coating with 99.9% reflection is not hard to build.

. . .

Mazza, you're a fraud. I'm taking the evening off. OUT.

mazza9 - 09:56pm Feb 1, 2002 EST (#11176 of 11188)
Louis Mazza

RShow55:

Show me one ICBM with reflective coatings! My phaser can penetrate your measly shield. You Klingons think that you can attack and hide behind your cloaking device, well I know a mixed metaphor when I write one?????

But really:

The Real Deal and it ain't sugar coated (or foil wrapped like a Hershey Hug!)

LouMazza

lchic - 12:21am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11177 of 11188)

the real deal comes back to M i n d ~ S e t

mazza9 - 12:45am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11178 of 11188)
Louis Mazza

lchic:

DUH!!

LouMazza

lchic - 06:02am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11179 of 11188)

lchic 1/15/02 3:43am

rshow55 - 07:01am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11180 of 11188)

The link lchic cites above, lchic 1/15/02 3:43am and some directly below it, are important. We're dealing with big-scale matters of life and death here. The last two weeks have reinforced what was said there.

The things Eisenhower warned against in his farewell address http://www.geocities.com/~newgeneration/ikefw.htm have happened. Continued for forty years. The corruption (intellectual, moral, and financial, too) have gone on a long time -- festered - so that now, some levels of decadance and corruption are very well advanced.

Enronination rshow55 1/24/02 7:46am has become a way of life, now with the full force of the federal government behind it.

People who care about the welfare and defense of the United States, and the survival of the world, have to care about this. That means questions have to be asked, and asked in such a way that they are answered, and the answers effect decisions.

Some of the people who care most are professional military people, and their professional staffs. If you search this thread, you can find some dialog about Osprey that gives reason for concern, but also some reason for some qualified hope. MD8339 rshowalter 9/2/01 3:07pm

The MD weapons programs simply cannot work. And when one looks at the patterns that made the mess -- one gets a very good but terrifying judgement about the probable instability of our "failsafe" nuclear controls. And the credibility of the judgements behind their maintenance, and the strategic decisions connected to them.

All these problems need to be fixed. And can be. This thread has been part of that.

There's a phrase -- that says " talk is cheap" . At the level of this thread (you can tell by sampling, and looking at the extent of the dialog) talk isn't cheap. At the level of this thread, talk is expensive. But the talk can lead to convergence on facts - - and that is very important, when truth and right decisions matter as much as they matter here.

rshow55 - 07:22am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11181 of 11188)

Posting I hope some people read are connected to MD10845 rshow55 1/17/02 3:28pm

MD11014 lchic 1/24/02 8:18am reads in part:

If there was a groundswell 'will' to fix such problems - would they get fixed? . . . Or is corruption regarded by voters as endemic? . . . Do voters consider themselves powerless? . . . Would such an issue get voters out - on Polling Day? . . . . . Over what issues has there been good voter turn out? - Perhaps 'hip pocket' .. but .. would voter's relate Enron matters as 'YES! Enron Matters!'

MD11015 rshow55 1/24/02 8:57am ...... Here are some of the questions I'd ask. . . . among them . . . What would honorable Republicans (Lugar, for instance) want done? Other questions, as well.

MD11016 lchic 1/24/02 9:15am .... MD11017 rshow55 1/24/02 9:18am

"Questions need to be asked -- about what is meant by "fixed"

"Especially when they are "fixed" already :)

"Some things need to be "unfixed!"

After a point, those who turn away from looking at corruption, corrupt themselves.

lchic - 07:54am Feb 2, 2002 EST (#11182 of 11188)

If each of these was actually a weapon - who'd keep tabs on t h e m ?

(6 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense