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Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans
for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be
limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI
all over again?
(1766 previous messages)
- 10:51am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1767
If the nations that manufactured and sold land mines were held
responsible for paying pensions along with compensation, and
provision of ever changing sized prosthetics, to the victims of
their mines, then, their eagerness to produce these mines would
cease. They wouldn't be profitable.
Responsible nations should be moving that an international BAN is
placed on Land Mines.
Additional problems with these leg-removing-mines is that records
of their seeding are not made and kept, and the mines float into
water courses and end-up 'everywhere'.
- 11:02am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1768
Yes ! And that argument - properly made, would tend to inhibit
all sorts of other arms sales, too.
Many arguments, that are right, are "somehow too weak" -- instead
of propagating, they fizzle, because they do not overcome the "chain
breakers" that keep ideas from entering minds, and propagating from
mind to mind.
The land mine case is a fine example of what can be done -- one
wonderful woman, using the resources of the internet, has made a BIG
difference, and a big start, on a big problem.
One thing that has happened is that people have become committed,
and they've kept at it.
There are technical reasons, having to do with how minds work,
that this "staff work" is often essential for persuasion.
- 11:04am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1769
1433-1435 excerpts rshowalter
Human Beings are both much more and much less than "logical
beings" -- and some of the best things about us are associative and
intuitive. Humanity would be unthinkable otherwise. But that also
means that groups of people can convince each other of ideas that
are dangerous and wrong.
We have no choice but to
" let people "construct their models and
inter-relations" piece by piece, and wait to get comfortable with
them -- on a step by step, incremental basis. This is not
"illogical" -- but it is extra-logical --- it gives people time to
get things to fit together, for them, in a mind where things are
evaluating in terms of consistency in a VERY complicated
One consequence is that people adjust to new ideas slowly -
there's a lot of adjustment, usually, before the "light bulb goes
on." That means it may take time, and multiple approaches, and
enough repetition, to persuade real people that something must be
wrong -- when in simple logic, one counter-example should do.
* * * * (details and references on LSA here * * *
The need for repetition, for multiple views, for multiple
pieces of evidence, is a central reason why people in interaction
exchange such a huge number of words, and is also an essential
reason why, regardless of eloquence or logical correctness, there
may have to be STAFF WORK to generate enough information to build a
case that satisfies and persuades PEOPLE so that they can actually
- 11:11am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1770
It's interesting how the Euros are lining up to pay homage on
'getting to know you,
getting to know all about
getting to feel free and 'un' easy ..
cos of all
unbeautiful and unnew,
things they are learning about ......
Political diplomacy is a two way international street ... i can't
see one leader being allowed on a plane ... too far from the reign
on the mane ... of marionette's minders.
So papa Bush has one job with Carlyle, that makes profits from
war (do these guys manufacture land mines - one wonders), and
Bush-Jnr likes to make war .. chasing rogue States. Papa Bush has a
stake in oil ... and oil makes dirty air, and Bush-Jnr reneged on
There's seemingly no conflict of interest in the minds of the
Bush Camp, they rely on a non-thinking electorate.
Street-Protests are back in fashion.
- 11:15am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1771
So we're keeping at it. Word count has its uses!
With the internet, the word count is much more powerful than it
used to be, under some circumstances.
First, many can read it if they choose.
Second, arguments, evidence, and references can be laid down,
over time, and then accessed, rapidly and in combinations fit to new
particulars, when that is needed.
We are in a new world, with the internet, and there is now a
chance for the world to get past some old evils, some old
Land mines are an important example.
Nuclear weapons, which seem likely to reduce the whole world to a
dead land full of rotting
unburied corpses are, to me, another compelling example.
The very same message, delivered to the same mind, at a different
time, may make sense when it did not before. I'm hoping that some
set of ideas, perhaps similar to those set out in #266-269, this
9/25/00 7:32am may come to seem reasonable, and then come to
fruition in this way.
For that to happen, it will take staff work. But some progress, I
believe, is being made. On matters of missile defense and nuclear
weapons policy, and broader military policy, the credibility of the
Bush administration seems to be declining at an amazing,
unprecedented rate. If this thread has been even a tiny part of it,
it will have made a contribution.
- 11:16am Mar 30, 2001 EST (#1772
ON learning there is a three step process:
Familiarisation with same
So if getting an new idea is 'learning', then, the idea may be
learnt via steps and stages.
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