New York Times on the Web Forums Science

Missile Defense

Russian military leaders have expressed concern about US plans for a national missile defense system. Will defense technology be limited by possibilities for a strategic imbalance? Is this just SDI all over again?

almarst-2001 - 03:50pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1039 of 1049)

I am afraid, it will take more then couple of years, before the internet start competing with the mass-media.

If the leading media outlets can be frightened and coersed to paticipate in lie and propaganda, this Democracy is as shalow as the one, used to be found in USSR.

rshowalter - 04:05pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1040 of 1049)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

I think the situation is more promising, and much more capable of change, than that. But there is a point that I think Russians systematically misunderstand.

Let me reprint, without the name, an email I just got, and comment on it:

Hi Bob, Good posts recently. I have read all of the forums and most of the Guardian (missle defense and the thread started by beckvaa). I completely agree with what you are saying, but am concerned that in order to be heard by the people who you most need to listen, conspiracy theories will slam doors due to the innate nature of human reflex, especially in this case. I want you to be heard more than you can imagine, and I am just concerned- it is the same thing with the mathematicians who do not want to listen to the fact that they could be wrong, because of what it will mean to them INDIVIDUALLY. Let me know what you think. .....(name here)

In America, and many other places "conspiracy theories will slam doors" for reasons that are sometimes valid, but sometimes not.

A major problem is how to get Americans, including the press, to consider this case, where a conspiracy DOES exist, and, that must be understood.

This isn't an impossible persuasive problem. But it is a serious one. ----- let me look back for some references.

nb: I really have affection for Russia in many ways -- have since I used to read so much Russian mathematics - and noticed how DIFFERENT Russians were than Americans -- almost like mirror images. But some of the things that are inherently beautiful for you are ugly for us -- And vice versa. ... That won't change. We have to learn to communicate across cultural boundaries, without asking for the boundaries to change --- that involves some translation.

rshowalter - 04:18pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1041 of 1049)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

#953 rshowalter 3/12/01 1:24pm to #963 rshowalter 3/12/01 2:55pm was a suggestion that I made seriously, and still think practical -- though it has some of the same problems that courtship (an very practical activity!) also has. The core point was set out in #956 rshowalter 3/12/01 2:17pm

I had two things in mind.

. "Establishing FACTS beyond reasonable doubt - and explaining these facts very broadly.

and

. "Crafting a fully workable, fully complete, fully explained "draft treaty proposal" for nuclear disarmament and a more militarily stable world. Such drafting would, at the least, make for stunningly good journalism -- that could be widely syndicated among papers. Useful as that would be, I think the drafting would serve a much more useful purpose. That purpose would be actually getting the points that need to be worked out for nuclear disarmament set out coherently - - to a level where closure actually occurs. That would involve a great deal of staff work done coherently, quickly, and in coordinated fashion.

"I wonder how much might be done IN PUBLIC --- say if some Moscow Times staff, and people from a couple of US papers, some Guardian staff, and people from some interested governments, started an OPEN dialog together.

"With all the government involvement possible, from all the nations concerned, and with "shadow" governments set up when the government in power did not participate.

Do you think this couldn't be done as a matter of mechanics?

Do you think it would be ineffectual?

I think that it could be done, and that it would be powerfully effective, but that getting it done would involve some problems of "courtship" or "diplomacy" -- though not particularly difficult problems.

With the internet, we are in a new world.

lunarchick - 04:31pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1042 of 1049)
lunarchick@www.com

So the Chinese Leader noted - above.

lunarchick - 04:35pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1043 of 1049)
lunarchick@www.com

The propagandarist beating the drum of patriotism, nationalism, ethnicism may have to dig deeper as the Internet links ideas and strips down jingoist perversion.

rshowalter - 04:44pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1044 of 1049)
Robert Showalter showalte@macc.wisc.edu

On the issue of courtship. The GUARDIAN is an interesting organization. Here's another - you may notice that Mikhail Gorbachev is on the board: http://www.gsinstitute.org/about/board.html

I have some correspondence with these people, who have power, and powerful contacts, but don't yet know what talk boards are for in the new internet world. .. .. Here is a list of Signatories of the Global Security Institute appeal as of October 2, 2000 seem well worth listing, because I find the list hopeful: rshowalt 10/4/00 5:08am

Let me type a letter they sent me out, with a little background. It says something about this particular courtship - and what consummation takes.

lunarchick - 04:48pm Mar 15, 2001 EST (#1045 of 1049)
lunarchick@www.com

The propagandarist beating the drum of patriotism, nationalism, ethnicism may have to dig deeper as the Internet links ideas and strips down jingoist perversion.

(4 following messages)

New York Times on the Web Forums Science Missile Defense