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 [F] New York Times on the Web Forums  / Science  /

    Missile Defense

Keywords: cantabb

n Missile Defense #14318 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 07:41 pm
bluestar23 - 07:29pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14315 of 14316)

I think this MD Forum has been going on by default. Having far outlived what little usefulness it may once have had.

The abuse has been clear for long, but I won't hold my breath on NYT doing anything anytime soon...

n Missile Defense #14316 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 07:33 pm
rshow55 - 07:17pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14314 of 14314)

from the script of Casablanca http://6nescripts.free.fr/Casablanca.pdf p. 92

Rick comes quickly up to Renault. Rick: How can you close me up...

n Missile Defense #14312 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 06:56 pm
lchic - 05:13pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14311 of 14311)

USA 1999 statistic - 1609 gun deaths in just the 18-19 age group http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

Raises the question -

Why does a 'bodybag' from war-related-death have such an impact on the American psyche as compared to a death in the gutter

NOTHING to do with MD ! As usual.

Just dragging whatever you find in the yard does NOT necessarily belong here on MD...

n Missile Defense #14311 - lchic Oct 4, 2003 05:13 pm
USA 1999 statistic - 1609 gun deaths in just the 18-19 age group http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

Raises the question -

Why does a 'bodybag' from war-related-death have such an impact on the American psyche as compared to a death in the gutter

Preference Ignore Cantabb

n Missile Defense #14310 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 05:07 pm
rshow55 - 03:45pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14300 of 14302)

cont'd with overlap......

Cantabb objected to the illustration of multiple citation to these pieces. But I hope we agree that the pieces themselves are - focused - they do not "chase their tails." I think we have more to learn about how such focus comes into existence - and think we can learn more directly - proceeding along the lines of this thread...

n Missile Defense #14309 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 05:06 pm
rshow55 - 03:45pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14300 of 14302)

I'm going on - there's not much to the last post, in my opinion.

IF it's your last post – then I agree !

I'm saying that going around in circles is essential to much human logic - and can convege - though it need not...

n Missile Defense #14308 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 04:59 pm
lchic - 03:28pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14298 of 14302)

Here's a 'power' question The concept of 'Empire America'? Looking at the straight totalled number of voter in the 2000 election http://www.wittendal.com/usa1.htm it seems so many americans were simply 'out to lunch' on that day -- and/or had their franchaise to vote withdrawn eliminating them a say in their democratic representation ... in the land of 'Liberty' and 'Freedom' ...

n Missile Defense #14307 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 04:57 pm
rshow55 - 03:11pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14297 of 14302)

We need common ground to agree or disagree clearly about anything much.

Which is why I keep asking you what is it that you think you (and your esteemed colleague, lchic) have been working on this forum for 2-plus years ? And what specifically do you think you have accomplished, in relation to the claims you have made...

n Missile Defense #14302 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 03:46 pm
lchic - 03:03pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14296 of 14297) ~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

The afore mentioned writer made the assertion (additional to Shakespeare being Captain of teams of teams) that 'Language is where we live' and that 'we live in a SWIRL of language'

Suggests:

the 'bi-lingual' enjoy dual residency; implies a need for acculuralisation to make 'outsiders' integral to the group; begs understanding and digestion of the language of an issue such as Missile Defense And yet, MD is a zone shunned and deflected by cultures generally - as indicated by: few songs stories plays films limited information regularly available to reader MD doesn't feature in general conversation the negative aspects (fallout) of defense are ignored the clean-ups of past war are NOT priority The swirl of language with respect to MD is patchy and limited, perhaps a flurry here and there - it's pushed aside rather than taken on board. Perhaps the human brain is protecting itself from overload.

Posts don't suddenly become relevant and on-topic, just because you include the words (Missile Defense) or the abbreviation (MD)...

n Missile Defense #14301 - rshow55 Oct 4, 2003 03:46 pm
Here's a book that makes an only partly tongue-in-cheek effort to provide common culture.

AN INCOMPLETE EDUCATION by Judy Jones and William Wilson Ballantine Books, NY 1987

On the front dust jacket:

From Freud to Floating Currencies . ...

n Missile Defense #14300 - rshow55 Oct 4, 2003 03:45 pm
I'm going on - there's not much to the last post, in my opinion.

I'm saying that going around in circles is essential to much human logic - and can convege - though it need not. Cantabb is, in general, against the idea...

n Missile Defense #14299 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 03:42 pm
rshow55 - 03:02pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14295 of 14297)

Could you restate your questions?

Could you read any of my several posts in which I repeated them? Did you miss them each time ?..

n Missile Defense #14297 - rshow55 Oct 4, 2003 03:11 pm
We need common ground to agree or disagree clearly about anything much. I know Cantabb may dispute the relevance of these basic pieces to this board - but there's much discussion of discourse going on here. Both are short...

n Missile Defense #14295 - rshow55 Oct 4, 2003 03:02 pm
Cantabb: Just 2 very basic questions taking SO MUCH time ?

Could you restate your questions?

Lchic tells me that the board reads pretty well with your posts on "ignore" - and the fact is, your work hasn't been the only thing I've been concerned with...

n Missile Defense #14294 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 12:42 pm
rshow55 - 12:25pm Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14293 of 14293)

No problem putting those three in the same sentence.

Good to know.

Thanks for your excellent recent posts, Cantab ...

n Missile Defense #14292 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 11:50 am
rshow55 - 05:08am Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14287 of 14287)

Shakespeare lived before there was much math - but he'd have understood the connections to math needed here, I think. There are functions. …….and so on

- and though this may seem "circular" or "philosophically meaningless" - the fact is that "endless series" solutions involving these things (derivatives and derivatives of derivatives) are central to most of the key results of applied mathematics - and pure mathematics, too...

n Missile Defense #14291 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 11:49 am
rshow55 - 05:02am Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14286 of 14287)

This passage is from Fundamental Neuroanatomy by Walle J. H. Nauta and Michael Feirtag ...

n Missile Defense #14290 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 11:46 am
rshow55 - 05:00am Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14285 of 14287)

The connection to Shakespeare works well in another way. Shakespeare was a great human being - he produced a great corpus …… Now, the corpus of this thread is not distinguished in the ways Shakespeare's is - but it does have a serious purpose - and its word count is now several times greater than Shakespeare's (the thread text is now somewhere over 8 million words - and links to billions of words pretty directly. ) Enough so that it could be subjected to every kind of text analysis (including statistics) that is used on Shakespeare's text...

n Missile Defense #14289 - cantabb Oct 4, 2003 11:33 am
lchic - 04:05am Oct 4, 2003 EST (# 14284 of 14287)

This begs the question - If Shakespeare were Commander-in-Chief today and acknowledged for his 'generousity of spirit towards humanity' - then: How would Tudor-Bill handle the 'Terrorist Question', Iraq, and Missile Defense.

More irrelevancies from you. Including just the words [“Missile Defense”] is NOT going to make it relevant...

n Missile Defense #14251 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 09:16 am
rshow55 - 08:05am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14248 of 14250)

rshow55 Tag-line: "Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES.

Better Question: Can YOU & lchic do that ?..

n Missile Defense #14283 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 10:30 pm
fredmoore - 10:26pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14282 of 14282)

YAWN!

School yard mature, as usual.

Can't justify KAEP in the context of MD, as defined asnd clarified?..

n Missile Defense #14250 - rshow55 Oct 3, 2003 08:15 am
rshowalter - 03:55pm Sep 1, 2001 EST (#8302

No solution consistent with the "constraints" implied in the circumstances above is possible.

For human survival, we need solutions that people can "live with." ....

WE NEED A REFRAMING ...

n Missile Defense #14282 - fredmoore Oct 3, 2003 10:26 pm
cantabb - 10:06pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14281 of 14281)

YAWN!

n Missile Defense #14281 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 10:06 pm
fredmoore - 08:30pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14278 of 14278)

More rambling 'in-denial' Schoolyard nonsense!

Back to parroting things, eh ?

Put my posts NEXT to rshow's and see if you can tell the difference !..

n Missile Defense #14280 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 09:50 pm
lchic - 08:17pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14276 of 14278)

Suggestion for Cantabb

Go read the thread from post one. Read all posts.

Suggestion for you: SLOP doesn’t take long to figure out...

n Missile Defense #14279 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 09:43 pm
rshow55 - 08:06pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14274 of 14278)

How long are you going to keep dodging the questions I asked ?

None of what you posted so far, numerous links included, serves as an ANSWER !

Cantabb , the intensity of your emotion interests me...

n Missile Defense #14278 - fredmoore Oct 3, 2003 08:30 pm
cantabb - 12:45pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14265 of 14273)

More rambling 'in-denial' Schoolyard nonsense!

YAWN!

Mission complete!..

n Missile Defense #14245 - mazza9 Oct 3, 2003 12:43 am
I've got it!

RShow is over the edge. He is a bi-polar with multiple personality disorder...

n Missile Defense #14276 - lchic Oct 3, 2003 08:17 pm
Suggestion for Cantabb

Go read the thread from post one. Read all posts.

Catch you later ....

n Missile Defense #14243 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 11:40 pm
fredmoore - 11:16pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14241 of 14241)

So nitpicking Rshow is constructive and an 'on Topic KAEP' is not?

ONCE AGAIN, asking him to tell us what he thinks he has been working on for 2+ years here and what has he really accomplished during this time, in relation to his global claims is NOT "nitpicking." That's the crux of the problem: something he has NOT yet been able to state coherently, other than 'world peace' and big fihts/little fight and his own tortured rationalizations. Much like your OWN in relation to your defense of the continuing 'abuse' of this Forum and of your object of admiration, rshow55...

n Missile Defense #14274 - rshow55 Oct 3, 2003 08:06 pm
None of these are mine. They didn't happen by accident:

Posts by Almarst are set out and posted separately at http://www.mrshowalter.net/PostsBy_Almarst.htm - a list of links which would take 130 pages to print.

Posts by Gisterme are set out and posted separately at http://www.mrshowalter.net/PostsBy_Gisterme.htm - which is a 32 page list of links...

n Missile Defense #14273 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 05:00 pm
rshow55 - 01:41pm Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14266 of 14270)

You have already been making my point on your self-referencing, but you out-did yourself: about 150 self-referencingnks in 5 posts !

How obsessive !

THIS, instead of answering two simple questions I have been asking you in the past 2 weeks...

n Missile Defense #14240 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 10:33 pm
fredmoore - 10:14pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14238 of 14239)

Ooops, Erratum:

Please delete (instead of knitting) and replace with (nitting) in the above post.

ASKING questions on what rshow55 and you have been doing ON-topic for this long is neither "knitting" nor "nitting": Apparently, embarrassingly uncomfortable for you and other regulars, still floundering around to answer two simple straightforward questions !

Try to find something constructive you can to do !

n Missile Defense #14239 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 10:30 pm
fredmoore - 10:05pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14237 of 14237)

Preposterous Nonsense!

NOTHING original, is it ? Repeating what you were told and shown, and didn't like it much ?..

n Missile Defense #14236 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 09:38 pm
fredmoore - 08:03pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14234 of 14235)

"Cabtabb,"

Another school yard move ?

n Missile Defense #14235 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 09:35 pm
fredmoore - 08:03pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14234 of 14234)

I see your 'What nonsense' and raise that by a: Your assertions are Preposterous! and meant to conceal your failings and ignoble ambitions.

School yard dares ?..

n Missile Defense #14266 - rshow55 Oct 3, 2003 01:41 pm
Cantabb , just now I'm tired.

I think "connecting the dots" and "loop tests" are useful. Not perfect, not complete in themselves, but still essential to human cognition...

n Missile Defense #14265 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 12:45 pm
fredmoore - 10:46am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14257 of 14261)

fredmoore - 10:52am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14258 of 14261)

Still smartiung under, I see.

This mandate, logically speking, leaves the door open to a wide range of relevant multidisiplinary scientific approaches to DEFENSE.

“[M]andate” ?..

n Missile Defense #14264 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 12:30 pm
rshow55 - 10:34am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14256 of 14261)

My approach makes sense of " basic principles of rational analysis" that have been dangerously incomplete all these years.

What ? Wonder how we managed so far [with ““ basic principles of rational analysis" that have been dangerously incomplete all these years.”]

One of the few basic things required in rational analysis: “facts” not personal opinions or fiction, or a convenient blend of them...

n Missile Defense #14231 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 03:20 pm
fredmoore - 01:37pm Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14229 of 14229)

Cantabb, Try posting something on MD or KAEP as an MD alternative.

Have been asking the VERY same of the "regulars," including you ! And what have they been doing on-topic for the past 2-plus years?..

n Missile Defense #14260 - rshow55 Oct 3, 2003 11:01 am
I'm saying that

To sort things out well - you need both synthesis from associations - "connecting the dots" - and "going around and around, different ways - to establish internal and external consistency - loop tests.

and Cantabb calls that "nonsense."

Here's an analogy ( not exact in every way ) that deals with a lot of human experience.

Grinding is a partly statistical process - an abrasive geometry "goes round and round" to shape and polish another object...

n Missile Defense #14228 - fredmoore Oct 2, 2003 01:37 pm
Cantabb,

Try posting something on MD or KAEP as an MD alternative. Don't you have anything constructive to bring to this forum?

PS Nice 'duck out' of your Dickens blunder...

n Missile Defense #14258 - fredmoore Oct 3, 2003 10:52 am
Cantabb,

"Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful? Is a militarized space inevitable, necessary or impossible?..

n Missile Defense #14255 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 09:47 am
rshow55 - 09:26am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14254 of 14254)

Another 20+ links to your own posts: recycled confusion.

To sort things out well - you need both synthesis from associations - "connecting the dots" - and "going around and around, different ways - to establish internal and external consistency - loop tests. I'm citing an article from Blaine Harden that has influenced me - that I associate and link with other ideas - some my own - some external...

n Missile Defense #14253 - cantabb Oct 3, 2003 09:17 am
rshow55 - 08:15am Oct 3, 2003 EST (# 14250 of 14250)

Cont'd....

- including some recent assistance, regarding perturbation and damping, from Cantabb .

ASKING you to tell us what you think you have been doing here on the Forum for 2+ years [working so 'hard] AND for substantiation of ther global claims you have been making : May be "perturbation and damping" for YOU -- because you seem UNable to focus or answer staightforward questions asked of you on your 'hard' work here for so long...

n Missile Defense #14225 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 12:07 pm
rshow55 - 09:56am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14218 of 14219)

Whether I'm right or wrong about that - with some crossreferencing it would be possible to support the idea that I really believe that.

More “crossreferencing” for what, with what ? Btw, “the idea” (still undefined?) you talk about ?: Is it THAT new and original ?..

n Missile Defense #14224 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 12:01 pm
rshow55 - 09:56am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14218 of 14219)

The failures of complex cooperation that people have most trouble with now - and the problems of peacemaking that we find insoluble now - involve complicated subject matter . I'm working to do a teaching job that I believe is necessary to deal with those problems. I think there's progress...

n Missile Defense #14223 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 11:59 am
rshow55 - 09:56am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14218 of 14219)

The failures of complex cooperation that people have most trouble with now - and the problems of peacemaking that we find insoluble now - involve complicated subject matter . I'm working to do a teaching job that I believe is necessary to deal with those problems. I think there's progress...

n Missile Defense #14222 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 11:51 am
More OFF-topic irrelevance, with the usual dose of over-simplistic comment and self-references. May be, makes sense to your supporters.

rshow55 - 07:34am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14216 of 14219)

85 Percent Of Public Believe Bush's Approval Rating Fell In Last Month ……….- and can guess that Onion folks think so, too - since they've made it available on the net again...

n Missile Defense #14218 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 10:01 am
fredmoore - 06:15am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14215 of 14217)

Enlighten US ! You have a Phd in Mme Defargerie no doubt? I guarantee everyone else will say she was knitting...

n Missile Defense #14217 - rshow55 Oct 2, 2003 09:56 am
The failures of complex cooperation that people have most trouble with now - and the problems of peacemaking that we find insoluble now - involve complicated subject matter . I'm working to do a teaching job that I believe is necessary to deal with those problems. I think there's progress...

n Missile Defense #14214 - fredmoore Oct 2, 2003 06:15 am
cantabb - 01:30am Oct 2, 2003 EST (# 14213 of 14214)

"Did you know what Madame LaFarge was said to have really done ? "

Enlighten US ! You have a Phd in Mme Defargerie no doubt?..

n Missile Defense #14213 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 02:00 am
From near the end of of my last post: Should read (without a misplaced word] :

"Asking him to focus, make a reasoned argument, and substantiate what he claims: NOT positive ? You find this as my 'negative' "intent" ?"

n Missile Defense #14212 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 01:30 am
fredmoore - 11:31pm Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14209 of 14209)

cont'd with overlap ....

If you actually read my posts in context you would see that I try to steer Rshow into more rational and fruitful channels.

What I see is just the opposite...

n Missile Defense #14211 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 01:16 am
fredmoore - 11:31pm Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14209 of 14209)

Preposterous!

What else do you think I am, if NOT a forum reader/participant ? An NYT employee ?..

n Missile Defense #14210 - cantabb Oct 2, 2003 01:14 am
fredmoore - 11:31pm Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14209 of 14209)

Preposterous!

What else do you think I am, if NOT a forum reader/participant ? An NYT employee ?..

n Missile Defense #14208 - fredmoore Oct 1, 2003 11:31 pm
Cantabb,

"I’m a forum reader/participant like you – NOT responsible for keeping this forum open or closing it down."

Preposterous!

Responsibility is HARDLY the issue. The issue is one of intent and you have clearly expressed your intent to close this forum...

n Missile Defense #14207 - cantabb Oct 1, 2003 08:03 pm
Look at this exchange:

gisterme - 01:35am Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14191 of 14205)

rshow55: "...At gisterme's suggestion, I posted this - and it seems to me that there was a certain amount of interest ..."

gisterme: I suggested no such thing. You simply made up that ridiculous baloney you claim I "suggested" you post. I knew noting about that tripe until you posted it...

n Missile Defense #14206 - cantabb Oct 1, 2003 07:53 pm
lchic - 06:32am Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14196 of 14205)

Cantabb "Can't hear what you say - I've got beanz in my ears"

Preferences - Ignore

You don’t need to hear Cantabb. NOT required to.

You’re marching to a different drummer...

n Missile Defense #14205 - cantabb Oct 1, 2003 07:31 pm
fredmoore - 06:24am Oct 1, 2003 EST (# 14195 of 14201)

You remain confused.

If you [cantabb] can't close the forum down with your written complaints to NYT AND you cannot convince Rshow to post on topic ... what USE are you and what is the purpose of your continuance?..

n Missile Defense #14160 - cantabb Sep 30, 2003 11:38 am
rshow55 - 09:55am Sep 30, 2003 EST (# 14161 of 14161)

About 5 self-references/links in one single post. Scattered and cliched, as usual; more nonsensical wanderings.

The following postings, though extensive, .......

n Missile Defense #14158 - cantabb Sep 30, 2003 01:12 am
There I go again:

The first sentence, my last post should read: "I think 'ignoring' them would NOT do it."

n Missile Defense #14157 - cantabb Sep 30, 2003 01:10 am
mazza9 - 11:26pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14156 of 14158)

The solution is to place them, (including Alarmist and Rotteneggs)on the ignore posts.

I think 'ignoring' them would do it. Confronting and challenging them on specifics and rationality might, might (?) fare a little better...

n Missile Defense #14156 - mazza9 Sep 29, 2003 11:26 pm
The Rshow and lchic monsters feed on your posts. The solution is to place them, (including Alarmist and Rotteneggs)on the ignore posts. When they have only themselves to talk to they will eventually wither and go to the Guardian where they can commisserate with fellow travelers...

n Missile Defense #14155 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 07:41 pm
Actually, the faux-Zen variety.

n Missile Defense #14154 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 07:35 pm
Posts like above - Zen conundrums

n Missile Defense #14152 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 07:31 pm
rshow55 - 06:20pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14144 of 14146)

Endless slop !

IN NEGOTIATION PROBLEMS - THE SAME ISSUES EXIST - AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE WORKABLE SIMULATIONS OF THE ACTORS WHO WISH TO HAVE A STABLE COOPERATION - WITHIN PREDICTABLE AND STABLE LIMITS.

Don’t you want to know WHAT EXACTLY are the issues, and prepare for them --- before the face-to-face ?..

n Missile Defense #14142 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 05:25 pm
"Thanks for keeping us posted with your schedule !": to rshow55.

n Missile Defense #14141 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 05:19 pm
rshow55 - 04:07pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14135 of 14138)

Your unfocused rambling continues....

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7a163/483 includes some petty pictures - and dialog about them Fractal Images ............ Control systems out of adjustment oscillate uncontrollably or ..........

n Missile Defense #14137 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 04:32 pm
rshow55 - 02:56pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14132 of 14132)

continued with overlap.......

"If you follow this board, it is easy to see that I couldn't do the things I propose in.......... "I'd be blocked - quite often on status grounds...

n Missile Defense #14136 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 04:31 pm
rshow55 - 02:56pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14132 of 14132)

Here's a somewhat detailed response -- just to set the record straight:

Cantabb - please answer me this. I asked jorian319 a specific question just above - in 14128 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585361@.f28e622/15834

Actually, in # 14128, you quote an exchange (from #13678) and ask 3 questions (clearly rhetorical: as Jorian says above) . Your circular self-referencing aside, the Questions you ask [roughly] : how long people have to “fight”, how many would “really want” to fight, and how many know how to avoid a “fight”?..

n Missile Defense #14134 - rshow55 Sep 29, 2003 04:07 pm
http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7a163/483 includes some petty pictures - and dialog about them Fractal Images http://www.softsource.com/softsource/fractal.html

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_cndl.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_pine.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_pine.gif

http://www.softsource.com/softsource/m_trieye.gif

Control systems out of adjustment oscillate uncontrollably or diverge - like fractals - they do not close. But things can be adjusted so that order, symettry, and harmony for a purpose are attainable. People, of course, do this often - when they take care, and know enough to do so...

n Missile Defense #14133 - jorian319 Sep 29, 2003 03:14 pm
<clears throat> Is THIS what you're talking about, Robert?

Was I saying something you already know?

Referred to

How often do people have to fight?..

n Missile Defense #14132 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 03:13 pm
jorian319 - 02:39pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14131 of 14131)

Another raw gem from cantabb. I am rather enjoying his dissembly of Rshow's ramblings. Do you need someone to bring you food or anything, cantabb?..

n Missile Defense #14131 - rshow55 Sep 29, 2003 02:56 pm
Cantabb - please answer me this. I asked jorian319 a specific question just above - in 14128 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585361@.f28e622/15834

Would you have a clear answer to the question asked ( not just another effort to generate divergence and another expression of hostility ).

When I suggested a very sensible way to solve some problems - or so it seemed to me - your response was an emphatic "you couldn't pay me (us) enough" - ( as I recall )...

n Missile Defense #14130 - jorian319 Sep 29, 2003 02:39 pm
Most people know lot more than what you're saying.

Another raw gem from cantabb. I am rather enjoying his dissembly of Rshow's ramblings...

n Missile Defense #14129 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 02:35 pm
rshow55 - 02:26pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14128 of 14129)

If everybody actually knew those things when it mattered we'd sort out the problems that now stump us.

In fact, if YOU knew that, you would NOT add to the burden.

Was I saying something you already know?..

n Missile Defense #14128 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 02:29 pm
rshow55 - 02:06pm Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14125 of 14126)

I suggest you take this over to OP-Ed Editorial Forums, section on Friedman. Note: THAT is a "moderated" forum.

His book [L&OT] has been discussed there and here and elsewhere lot of times...

n Missile Defense #14123 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 01:22 pm
rshow55 - 07:56am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14114 of 14122)

Another series of mindless rote, gone over and over.

Disjointed, inherently flawed logic, based on ‘unvarified’ doesn’t metamorphose into something rational JUST by such senseless rote. “Checking” is NOT just word: involves rational process NOT seen here ...

n Missile Defense #14122 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 01:11 pm
fredmoore - 07:36am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14113 of 14122)

There are many ways to skin an Rcat without jumping on its Rtail and ... many ways to Can a tabby without jumping on its head!

And there is always MORE re-tread from school yard Fred.

n Missile Defense #14111 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 07:22 am
fredmoore - 07:14am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14109 of 14110)

Cantabb hijacks Gis..termes sub

raises periscope glub glub

spies Rhsow in the distance

who needs help and assistance

"Rig for anti-NONSENSE running" bellows Cantabb from the conn

"Load tubes one and three we got him on the run",

"target locked" and "fire", the big fish on the wire

are moving to their target , things are looking dire

oops there's tragedy a looming but torpedos miss their quarry

"Due to Canonicity, your dots were not connected and I'm really very sorry".

FM2003

One more MD regular doing more of the same .......

n Missile Defense #14110 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 07:18 am
rshow55 - 06:58am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14108 of 14108)

- that isn't necessarily such a unrealistic objective ["...and save mankind thru the MD thread..."] - it depends on how much saving mankind needs - and how hard mankind is already working to save itself.

Gisterme , I think some of your postings have been directed to your effort to clarify things - as if you were in a position to make decisions that mattered to all or much of mankind. Intellectuals, after all, do a lot of as iffing ........

n Missile Defense #14109 - fredmoore Sep 29, 2003 07:14 am
It's party time ...... P.A.R.T.Y ..... Why?..

n Missile Defense #14107 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 06:27 am
gisterme - 05:37am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14105 of 14105)

Cantabb: for the last 12 days.

. Gisterme: Since Mar, 2002 & before

...

n Missile Defense #14106 - cantabb Sep 29, 2003 06:20 am
gisterme - 05:37am Sep 29, 2003 EST (# 14105 of 14105)

If "non-contritubory to the header of above" is the standard you use to decide whom to ignore then I can understand how you'd use that device on rshow and cantabb. Neither of them are contributory to the header topic. Of course by fair application the same standard you'd have to ignore yourself too...

n Missile Defense #14105 - gisterme Sep 29, 2003 05:37 am
lchic -

"...'Ignore' (see preferences button) can be used to take out monikers that are non-contributory to the header above in either the narrow or wider senses. It's a useful device - I'm employing it currently..."

If "non-contritubory to the header of above" is the standard you use to decide whom to ignore then I can understand how you'd use that device on rshow and cantabb. Neither of them are contributory to the header topic...

n Missile Defense #14101 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 08:28 pm
rshow55 - 08:02pm Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14099 of 14100)

Rubber Maids By WILLIAM NORWICH ................... We have too many vulnerabilities, by thousands and millions of times, to defend against them all, unless we do so as part of a working world community.

Totally irrelevant, as XXX = Lunarchick = lchic should have reminded you: "....

n Missile Defense #14098 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 04:06 pm
lchic - 03:35pm Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14092 of 14097)

'Ignore' (see preferences button) can be used to take out monikers that are non-contributory to the header above in either the narrow or wider senses. It's a useful device - I'm employing it currently.

Here it's AGAIN, the MD Forum Header:

"Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts...

n Missile Defense #14096 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 03:45 pm
bbbuck - 03:21pm Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14088 of 14090)

Why and the hell would anyone want more proof of showalter's gibberish?

Do you not understand what the ignore poster option is for?

A p[ewrsonal choice...

n Missile Defense #14084 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 03:01 pm
jorian319 - 09:14am Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14080 of 14080)

cantabb:You're making it difficult for Robert to maintain his stranglehold on conversation around here. Shame on you!

Monologue is NOT “conversation.” However, some dedicated ‘regulars’ here don't think so...

n Missile Defense #14083 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 02:59 pm
rshow55 - 08:29am Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14079 of 14080)

During that house arrest - I feel that I've been able to clarify some key points - after the manner of http://www.mrshowalter.net/Similitude_ForceRatios_sjk.htm - - set out in part in 14054 ……My sense of priorities is reasonably clear….

Absolutely NOTHING to do with the Forum. Only your personal situation, according to you...

n Missile Defense #14082 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 02:58 pm
rshow55 - 08:26am Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14078 of 14080)

cont'd with overlap...

These are emails I sent - modified to delete names of CIA personnel. The unmodified emails are available to the NYT -… I made to a inquiry from Deutsche Bank Securities July of last year - when a question was asked that I believe was in response to a CIA officer...

n Missile Defense #14081 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 02:56 pm
rshow55 - 08:21am Sep 28, 2003 EST (# 14077 of 14080)

Yet another tiresome repetition !

I see little here that really merits a response. Let me point out a few other things, however:

In your last 3 posts you’ve provided at least 12 links/references to your own posts...

n Missile Defense #14080 - jorian319 Sep 28, 2003 09:14 am
cantabb:

You're making it difficult for Robert to maintain his stranglehold on conversation around here. Shame on you!

n Missile Defense #14077 - rshow55 Sep 28, 2003 08:21 am
Incoherent? The passages look coherent to me.

Here's a fact - a fact that isn't so important to know if explosive fighting without end is the objective - but a fact that is important to know if stable resolutions that pass reasonable tests of fairness are to be achieved...

n Missile Defense #14076 - cantabb Sep 28, 2003 02:21 am
I had skipped over this one.

rshow55 - 09:25pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14072 of 14075)

Maybe I'm wrong - and cantabb is not a salaried NYT employee. But if he is - the NYT organization should be ashamed of him - and wonder what the human standards are that produce his responses...

n Missile Defense #14075 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 10:38 pm
bbbuck - 09:05pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14068 of 14074)

The 'nytimes' is paying 'the moniker that can't be named's salary.

Hmmm. That explains alot...

n Missile Defense #14074 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 10:36 pm
lchic - 09:10pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14069 of 14072)

Cantabb of(f) course reduces alphabet to dot-dash-dot morse

lchic - 09:11pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14070 of 14072)

Paying him? or Playing him!?

lchic - 09:20pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14071 of 14072)

It's interesting that morse signals were devised to improve communication - that's 'slow' communication, which was 'fast' at that time, and expensive - between human animals...

n Missile Defense #14073 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 10:29 pm
rshow55 - 09:02pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14067 of 14072)

More nonsensical speculations. More of: If you can’t answer the question, start personally attacking the one asking questions !

Cantabb quotes me just above: cantabb says: "NOT a fact...

n Missile Defense #14072 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 09:25 pm
The Jayson Blair scandal happened, in large part - because the NYT has a culture that is based on ascribed status - and not checking.

Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/11/national/11PAPE.html

A staff reporter for The New York Times committed frequent acts of journalistic fraud while covering significant news events in recent months, an investigation by Times journalists has found.

Maybe I'm wrong - and cantabb is not a salaried NYT employee...

n Missile Defense #14069 - lchic Sep 27, 2003 09:10 pm
Cantabb of(f) course

reduces alphabet

to

dot-dash-dot

morse

n Missile Defense #14067 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 09:02 pm
Cantabb quotes me just above:

Here's a fact - a fact that isn't so important to know if explosive fighting without end is the objective - but a fact that is important to know if stable resolutions that pass reasonable tests of fairness are to be achieved.

cantabb says: "NOT a fact. Just a naïve platitude"

How would you check something like that?..

n Missile Defense #14065 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 08:34 pm
rshow55 - 06:07pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14060 of 14061)

Cont'd with overlap....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And, if after 25,000 posts, this empty wandering rhetoric is the best you have to offer by way of explanation, you do nothing but further strengthen my initial assessment of your “work," ‘using’ NYT forums.

n Missile Defense #14064 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 08:33 pm
rshow55 - 06:07pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14060 of 14061)

That's been based on the assumption - that some may think naive - that people can learn how to agree to disagree clearly, without fighting, comfortably, so that they can cooperate stably, safely, and productively. Knowing that wouldn't avoid all conflict - ….. are especially useful - though arguably not "orignial" - and lchic and I have tried to produce some...

n Missile Defense #14063 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 08:28 pm
rshow55 - 06:06pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14059 of 14061)

continued with overlap....

Another major objective has been to try to work out and teach enough so that people could avoid mistakes and fights that now go on with monotonous and lethal regularity - and endanger the world. I've had other objectives, too - some set out in passages that I think are the more important the more "obvious" they are...

n Missile Defense #14062 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 08:27 pm
rshow55 - 06:02pm Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14058 of 14061)

Another series of confused, irrelevant digressive posts ! Another set of highly strained rationalizations:

Here's something else obvious .

People know very well how to convert disagreements into escalatory fights...

n Missile Defense #14060 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 06:07 pm
That's been based on the assumption - that some may think naive - that people can learn how to agree to disagree clearly, without fighting, comfortably, so that they can cooperate stably, safely, and productively. Knowing that wouldn't avoid all conflict - but it would avoid a great deal - and help limit the rest. It seems to me that people are about ready to learn "how to agree to disagree without fighting." I also think that a good deal has condensed...

n Missile Defense #14059 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 06:06 pm
On my first posting this year, I wrote this:

7177 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585374@.f28e622/8700

I think this is a year where some lessons are going to have to be learned about stability and function of international systems, in terms of basic requirements of order , symmetry , and harmony - at the levels that make sense - and learned clearly and explicitly enough to produce systems that have these properties by design, not by chance.

The lessons are fairly easy, I believe, though not difficult to screw up. A problem is that perfect stability - and complete instability - are mirror images - and issues of balance and correct signs can be, in a plain sense, matters of life and death...

n Missile Defense #14058 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 06:02 pm
13999 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585374@.f28e622/15705 cites

Dogged Engineer's Effort to Assess Shuttle Damage By JAMES GLANZ and JOHN SCHWARTZ http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/national/nationalspecial/26ENGI.html , which was the subject of a fine editorial today.

Chicken Littles and Ostriches at NASA http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/27/opinion/27SAT3.html

Rodney Rocha, an obscure engineer at NASA, tried repeatedly, and in vain, to warn shuttle managers of a potential catastrophe.

We're "wired up" so that, unless we learn some things - we'll continue to make lethal mistakes with monotonous regularity - and the world will remain much uglier than it would be if we could only learn how we go wrong - by "being nice" in the wrong place - when right answers are needed...

n Missile Defense #14055 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 09:54 am
rshow55 - 09:02am Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14054 of 14054)

I think Steve would have approved of this thread - though he sometimes "raked me over the coals" after the manner of cantabb.

It's NOT the matter of approving/disapproving this thread. It's the question of your use of it, and its purpose...

n Missile Defense #14054 - rshow55 Sep 27, 2003 09:02 am
http://www.mrshowalter.net/Similitude_ForceRatios_sjk.htm is important, I think, and important here. It has an image that is about a meg, for clarity. It is taken from Chapter 3: Method of Similitude and Introduction to Fractional Analysis of Overall Equations...

n Missile Defense #14051 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 02:55 am
fredmoore - 02:41am Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14050 of 14050)

Further, it goes to show:........

Really ? Which version did you get DownUnder ?

n Missile Defense #14049 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 02:22 am
gisterme - 01:48am Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14048 of 14048)

cantabb: "...Talking about YOU finding the Letterman jibe ?"

gisterme: Ahem,... you're the one who pointed it out.

I pointed that out re comment by another 'regular' [fredmoore] on his exchange with me on 'Science in the News'...

n Missile Defense #14047 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 01:17 am
gisterme - 12:48am Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14045 of 14046)

Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. :-)

Talking about YOU finding the Letterman jibe ?

n Missile Defense #14046 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 01:16 am
gisterme - 12:47am Sep 27, 2003 EST (# 14044 of 14044)

You mean your posting of the the David Letterman jive? Sure I saw it. Right there on the "Science in the News" forum...

n Missile Defense #14045 - gisterme Sep 27, 2003 12:48 am
cantabb -

Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. :-)

n Missile Defense #14044 - gisterme Sep 27, 2003 12:47 am
cantabb -

"...Didn't you see the focused on-topic posts and the discussion ?..."

You mean your posting of the the David Letterman jive? Sure I saw it. Right there on the "Science in the News" forum...

n Missile Defense #14043 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 12:27 am
Should read (in the previous post):

"Why would I be "in denial" ?

n Missile Defense #14042 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 12:07 am
gisterme - 10:56pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14040 of 14040)

What have you accomplished here or on any other web forum, cantabb? [emphasis added]

Didn't you see the focused on-topic posts and the discussion ?

Did you see posters getting "entertained" there ?..

n Missile Defense #14041 - cantabb Sep 27, 2003 12:01 am
gisterme - 10:56pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14040 of 14040)

As your own posts so amply demonstrate.

MY posts have been pointing out the slop, in case you didn't notice. Not participating in it, as the "regulars" like you have been, for some 14,000 posts (+ more before)...

n Missile Defense #14040 - gisterme Sep 26, 2003 10:56 pm
cantabb -

"...Well, some like participating in slop..."

As your own posts so amply demonstrate.

Q: What have you accomplished here or on any other web forum, cantabb?

A: "...Nothing more than any other poster would want: a focused discussion..."

You haven't accomplished that here and don't seem to be making any attempt to contribute to focusing the discussion on anything except your own whining...

n Missile Defense #14035 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 08:33 pm
gisterme - 08:17pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14034 of 14034)

Of course I remember it. The reason it ended is because I got the sense that you had no clue what it was about. I haven't changed my mind about that yet...

n Missile Defense #14034 - gisterme Sep 26, 2003 08:17 pm
cantabb -

"...You must NOT remember the exchange we've had !..."

Of course I remember it. The reason it ended is because I got the sense that you had no clue what it was about. I haven't changed my mind about that yet...

n Missile Defense #14033 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 07:51 pm
rshow55 - 06:46pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14031 of 14032)

"08" should be "8" after WebX? The intended address is http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585377@.f28e622/15727

Made no difference. More of the same...

n Missile Defense #14032 - rshow55 Sep 26, 2003 07:13 pm
Bush Seeks Putin's Support on Iraq, Iran By REUTERS Published: September 26, 2003 Filed at 6:28 p.m. ET http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/politics-bush-russia.html

CAMP DAVID, Md. (Reuters) - President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin opened talks on Friday expected to focus on postwar assistance to Iraq and concerns that Iran is trying to build a nuclear weapon...

n Missile Defense #14030 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 04:51 pm
lchic - 04:16pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14026 of 14029)

Showalter an interesting set of posts re cooperative negotiation

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?08@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585377@.f28e622/15727

That opens NYT 'Member center' !

n Missile Defense #13998 - lchic Sep 26, 2003 07:10 am
Cantabb - I checked out Sept 17th

and additionally the Sc list of opinion headers.

NO politics in other Science Opinion forums !?!

Take a closer look they are all politically loaded...

n Missile Defense #14029 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 04:48 pm
rshow55 - 04:14pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14025 of 14028)

Cantabb - we disagree on some key things.

At least you got that right !

Maybe lchic and I have been like the mosquito in fredmoore's mosquito and the elephant joke...

n Missile Defense #13997 - rshow55 Sep 26, 2003 07:07 am
I'm not sure I can ever summarize to cantabb's satisfaction - but I do think I'm working on new stuff. Wrote this recently - and think it bears repeating for emphasis.

Here was the CENTRAL thing Bridgman knew about calibrating and perfecting a measurement instrument...

n Missile Defense #14028 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 04:35 pm
rshow55 - 03:26pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14021 of 14024)

For stable end games - stable agreements - people and groups have to be workably clear on these key questions...........

rshow55 - 03:40pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14022 of 14024)

After stable "agreements to disagree" - there's time, and safety - for incremental agreements to form and focus. .........

n Missile Defense #13996 - rshow55 Sep 26, 2003 07:07 am
There's "nothing fancy" about learning to tie your shoes. Everybody learns that. Though it takes a while - and sometimes a long while...

n Missile Defense #14025 - rshow55 Sep 26, 2003 04:14 pm
Cantabb - we disagree on some key things.

Maybe lchic and I have been like the mosquito in fredmoore's mosquito and the elephant joke. Bush and Putin know that answer...

n Missile Defense #13993 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 12:46 am
gisterme - 12:25am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 13992 of 13992)

cantabb: "...Others are busy making my point..."

gisterme: Your point? Heh heh. Welcome to the bandwagon, cantabb...

n Missile Defense #14024 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 04:06 pm
lchic - 03:03pm Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14018 of 14023)

Cantabb

'You' can mean 'thou'

'You' can mean 'any reader'

'You' can mean that person to whom one is interacting with in a particular post - where there is a contribution to the board

---

Hint : Rather than swimming in minutiae, contribute to the discussion!

IF the above [on 'you'] is NOT the 'minutiae', I don't know what else it would be.

Hint: I am just responding to the posts directed to me [since my very first posts here]...

n Missile Defense #13992 - gisterme Sep 26, 2003 12:25 am
"...Others are busy making my point..."

Your point? Heh heh. Welcome to the bandwagon, cantabb...

n Missile Defense #14018 - lchic Sep 26, 2003 03:03 pm
Cantabb

'You' can mean 'thou'

'You' can mean 'any reader'

'You' can mean that person to whom one is interacting with in a particular post - where there is a contribution to the board

----

Hint : Rather than swimming in minutiae, contribute to the discussion!

n Missile Defense #14015 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:57 am
rshow55 - 08:16am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14006 of 14008)

Fighting is sometimes useful and sometimes not. The rule "never fight" is a good one - but there need to be exceptions that work. We need to know when it is useful or necessary to fight, when it isn't - know how to fight better - know how to avoid fights better - in specific cases - including specific cases that require switching...

n Missile Defense #14014 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:56 am
More of the same digressive monlogue on more non-sequiturs :

rshow55 by-line: "Can we do a better job of finding truth? YES. Click "rshow55" for some things Lchic and I have done and worked for on this thread."

Can YOU ?..

n Missile Defense #13982 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 10:29 pm
lchic - 10:16pm Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13981 of 13981)

Looking for your points and opinions on MD ..... waiting .... still waiting ...

n Missile Defense #14013 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:48 am
rshow55 - 07:07am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 13996 of 14008)

People need to learn something that ought to ……..People need to learn ………..Though some wonderful teaching about human differences goes on in stories written by people who get published in the New York Times - though the lessons don't often get learned. http://www.mrshowalter.net/Killer_Bikes_for_Chuwit.htm

I need to do some condensing - and cantabb's comments, though I find them a little homicidal - are stimulating.

“People [desperately] need to learn” to come to the point and make it...

n Missile Defense #14012 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:44 am
lchic - 07:19am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 14001 of 14008)

~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

Some posters even 'bicker' here, on this board.

Yes, they DO. And, even point to others...

n Missile Defense #13980 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 10:14 pm
lchic - 10:04pm Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13978 of 13979)

One point is simplex Multi-points are complex So you're sticking with the '1' point? Will you win with the '1' point? Which race do you think you're in?..

n Missile Defense #13979 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 10:07 pm
lchic - 09:57pm Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13977 of 13977)

If this board had 5% science it 'fits' the American Standard!

And, it's supposed to be a "Science" forum. Go figger !..

n Missile Defense #14011 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:43 am
lchic - 07:10am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 13998 of 14008)

Cantabb - I checked out Sept 17th and additionally the Sc list of opinion headers. NO politics in other Science Opinion forums !?! Take a closer look they are all politically loaded...

n Missile Defense #14010 - cantabb Sep 26, 2003 11:41 am
fredmoore - 05:04am Sep 26, 2003 EST (# 13994 of 14008)

I say I say I say ....

You mean : "Neigh, neigh, neigh" !

That boy with the barnyard manners is about as sharp as a bowling ball...

n Missile Defense #13976 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 09:56 pm
mazza9 - 05:53pm Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13970 of 13975)

Mind you I performed this all in one post!

Wow !

I like the way you 'performed' all this !..

n Missile Defense #14003 - rshow55 Sep 26, 2003 07:49 am
With good staffing - the most interesting answer would be both .

We've worked through some necessary conditions to prosperity and international cooperation.

We're still missing just a few...

n Missile Defense #13968 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 12:19 pm
rshow55 - 11:52am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13965 of 13965)

It is fair to ask "What have you been doing, and doing with lchic , since that posting?

I think the answer is "a lot" - work that I expect should be able to reduce the risk of agony and death from war a long way from where it has been - and make advances in science and economics possible - and if I'm wrong - there ought to be ways to check that are actually workable.

Absolutely ridiculous claims...

n Missile Defense #13967 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 12:18 pm
The flurry of ~ 25 posts helps confirm how badly this thread needs focus. It includes a few things (discussed with me before) that need to be placed in their proper place:

rshow55 - 05:58am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13946 of 13958)

I think this thread has made the world safer.

How ?..

n Missile Defense #13958 - cantabb Sep 25, 2003 10:06 am
gisterme - 03:02am Sep 25, 2003 EST (# 13939 of 13958)

cantabb, bluestar - Well, gents, they've intervened from time to time over the years. Both Showalter and Lunarchick have been banned before but were shortly allowed to resume with new monikers. Go figure...

n Missile Defense #13938 - gisterme Sep 25, 2003 03:02 am
cantabb, bluestar -

"...Doesn’t look like the NYT Moderators have bothered to do that. YET !..."

Well, gents, they've intervened from time to time over the years. Both Showalter and Lunarchick have been banned before but were shortly allowed to resume with new monikers...

n Missile Defense #13932 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 11:59 pm
commondata - 10:02pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13930 of 13931)

I've just looked in for a brief moment and it's good to you're still at it Rshow. Cantabb, Jorian, you really are the most boring people ... block Rshow if you don't want to read him or go somewhere else...

n Missile Defense #13931 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 11:54 pm
fredmoore - 09:27pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13929 of 13931)

'What's fair' and 'what's cheating' don't seem to cover the realities. Perhaps, in ways that transmute to something tangible and something that really matters to juries and to those concerned with connecting dots in order to achieve symmetry outside of the kitchen sink,

Just as coherent as your friend !

the following story (retold) reaches the heart of the matter:

There was an ant in the jungle who fancied an elephant...

n Missile Defense #13930 - commondata Sep 24, 2003 10:02 pm
I've just looked in for a brief moment and it's good to you're still at it Rshow. Cantabb, Jorian, you really are the most boring people ... block Rshow if you don't want to read him or go somewhere else...

n Missile Defense #13928 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 08:35 pm
rshow55 - 08:01pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13926 of 13926)

I started today at 13899 - and I'm proud of what I wrote at 13900- 13903 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585386@.f28e622/15603 - - and I feel like resting now.

Good to know what you're proud of.

This thread is not an accident - and the fact that I'm posting here involves more than "wrongheadedness" on my part...

n Missile Defense #13927 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 08:22 pm
jorian319 - 07:56pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13924 of 13926)

And that's what counts, right? They are our hosts, after all... ...

n Missile Defense #13923 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 06:59 pm
mazza9 - 06:31pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13922 of 13922)

cantabb: ~20%? You are generous.

That was rshow's OWN estimate [# 13918], i.e., 80% of 25,000 posts would have been 'barred'...

n Missile Defense #13922 - mazza9 Sep 24, 2003 06:31 pm
cantabb: ~20%? You are generous. I've blocked Robert because the NYTimes will not!..

n Missile Defense #13921 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 06:02 pm
rshow55 - 04:23pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13919 of 13919)

Cantabb - I'm trying to keep my temper under control - have you thought about doing that? You may be the best editor in the world - but I think you're applying standards in wrong places, and wrong times.

Keeping your "temper under control" ?..

n Missile Defense #13920 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 05:49 pm
rshow55 - 04:21pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13918 of 13919)

continued with overlap....

Cantabb: Working with the patterns of discourse ( or patterns of closing off discourse) that you advocate so indignantly - how are those key questions - that are vital for workable closure of negotiations ever to be resolved?

WHAT "patterns of discourse"?..

n Missile Defense #13919 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 05:48 pm
rshow55 - 04:21pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13918 of 13919)

You keep trying to rationalize the way you have used this thread.

An interesting article. Play Fair: Your Life May Depend on It By NICHOLAS WADE: .......

n Missile Defense #13917 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 04:23 pm
Cantabb - I'm trying to keep my temper under control - have you thought about doing that? You may be the best editor in the world - but I think you're applying standards in wrong places, and wrong times.

I'll be rereading your criticism - but think you're bridling exactly in the places where the things that are most important are...

n Missile Defense #13916 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 04:21 pm
An interesting article:

. Play Fair: Your Life May Depend on It By NICHOLAS WADE http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/21/weekinreview/21WADE.html

If my survival was in your hands - what would happen?

Cantabb , I think it is clear that if the monitors wanted to construe the pupose of this thread exactly according to the heading - or any of the headings this thread has carried since its beginning in May 2000 ( those headings are here: 756 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.RwB4bMwLLHC.585386@.f28e622/949 ) - about 80% of the 25000 posts that have gone onto this thread would have been barred...

n Missile Defense #13915 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 02:06 pm
rshow55 - 12:44pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13915 of 13915)

When people "think about things" - and "talk things over" that "boring" process goes on and on and on and on . . ...

n Missile Defense #13914 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 02:02 pm
rshow55 - 12:43pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13914 of 13915)

Wasteful, Incoherent, Nonsensical for one purpose may be Economic, Coherent, and Sensible from another.

But when there is ONE specified purpose, NOT difficult to see what's "wasteful, incoherent and nonsensical" for THAT purpose. And, the 'purpose' of this forum, as of others, is clearly stated...

n Missile Defense #13917 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 02:06 pm
rshow55 - 12:44pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13915 of 13915)

When people "think about things" - and "talk things over" that "boring" process goes on and on and on and on . . ...

n Missile Defense #13916 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 02:02 pm
rshow55 - 12:43pm Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13914 of 13915)

Wasteful, Incoherent, Nonsensical for one purpose may be Economic, Coherent, and Sensible from another.

But when there is ONE specified purpose, NOT difficult to see what's "wasteful, incoherent and nonsensical" for THAT purpose. And, the 'purpose' of this forum, as of others, is clearly stated...

n Missile Defense #13915 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 12:44 pm
When people "think about things" - and "talk things over" that "boring" process goes on and on and on and on . . ...

n Missile Defense #13914 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 12:43 pm
Wasteful, Incoherent, Nonsensical for one purpose may be Economic, Coherent, and Sensible from another.

People have to do some switching.

...

n Missile Defense #13910 - jorian319 Sep 24, 2003 11:06 am
It's a WIN-WIN situation, cantabb. (Wasteful, Incoherent, Nonsensical)

n Missile Defense #13909 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 11:01 am
rshow55 - 09:05am Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13902 of 13905)

For example, quite a lot of this thread is quite specifically focused on missile defense - and a lot more isn't.

Is that cheating - is that unfair ?

You can argue that it is - and cantabb is doing so...

n Missile Defense #13908 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 10:57 am
rshow55 - 07:31am Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13901 of 13905)

You keep confirming my "criticism" and comments. More here. Parts of your posts are quoted to show that...

n Missile Defense #13907 - cantabb Sep 24, 2003 10:42 am
bluestar23 - 12:56am Sep 24, 2003 EST (# 13897 of 13905)

Maybe the Mods. should take a look at this thread.....it's pretty appalling....worse than just a personality disorder...its too bad because MD is interesting.

Doesn’t look like the NYT Moderators have bothered to do that...

n Missile Defense #13902 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 09:05 am
1623 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b2bd/1792 and 1624 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b2bd/1793 are largely about switching - and so is much of this thread.

When interconnected systems - with intention - get large enough - they become multipurpose - they involve switching at single nodes - and specializations that differ from place to place .

For example, quite a lot of this thread is quite specifically focused on missile defense - and a lot more isn't...

n Missile Defense #13901 - rshow55 Sep 24, 2003 07:31 am
cantabb - 04:03am Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13875 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528505@.f28e622/15578 includes this line, which he may have intended in a dismissive way - but that I felt was important:

Too bad the dots are NOT numbered. That would have helped some to get 'some' picture for the effort.

I responded in 13786:

Some dots are much better numbered than others - and for such reasons - we share about 100,000 definitions of words that we figured out for ourselves from a well marked context...

n Missile Defense #13896 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 10:59 pm
mazza9 - 10:41pm Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13895 of 13895)

cantabb: Go easy on the Robert.

I have been.

It's sad that Robert is allowed this forum to pursue a similar task and surely the stars will be extinguished before Robert is extinguished...

n Missile Defense #13895 - mazza9 Sep 23, 2003 10:41 pm
cantabb: Go easy on the Robert. After all his pedegogical prediliction is based on the "100 monkeys pounding on typewriter keyboards!" Kinda like Arthur C. Clarke's famous story "The Nine Billion Names of God!" The data processing consultant is leaving the monastery high in the Himalayas...

n Missile Defense #13894 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 10:04 pm
rshow55 - 08:41pm Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13893 of 13893)

Internal consistency counts for a lot.

Repeating the same thing [a generality, an error or a piece of misinformation] over and over is ALSO "consistency."

For the life of me, I thought there was new and focused stuff in those postings. I'll have to sleep on some things - to try to adjust to cantabb's point of view...

n Missile Defense #13893 - rshow55 Sep 23, 2003 08:41 pm
Mazza,, perhaps you know more than I do. I'm only guessing. Whoever gisterme is - he-she works hard http://www.mrshowalter.net/PostsBy_Gisterme.htm ...

n Missile Defense #13890 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 04:53 pm
rshow55 - 04:39pm Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13889 of 13889)

cantabb - we don't agree often - but this seems focused to me - and was an attempt on my part to write something basic.

NOTHING new or focused in the links you posted. This self-referencing is just another attempt to justify how you and your dedeicated friend have been using/abusing the NYT privilege...

n Missile Defense #13889 - rshow55 Sep 23, 2003 04:39 pm
cantabb - we don't agree often - but this seems focused to me - and was an attempt on my part to write something basic.

rshowalter - 10:00pm Aug 11, 2003 BST (#1623 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b2bd/1792

1624 http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@@.ee7b2bd/1793

Those postings start:

" I've been arguing for the need for a paradigm shift that is both intellectual and moral - and simple enough to explain and use.

"Including some simple exemplars that lchic and I have worked to focus - that might be usefully taught to four or five year olds...

n Missile Defense #13888 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 04:19 pm
bbbuck - 03:55pm Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13887 of 13887)

Of course occasionally we pick up another loonie, but they tire.

BUT some keep re-surfacing, continually !

n Missile Defense #13886 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 03:50 pm
rshow55 - 02:16pm Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13881 of 13882)

More of the same: totally irrelevant personal biographical stuff.

If only the things I've been trying to get across were commonplaces !

It is true that I'm trying to focus ideas worth becoming commonplaces - with great help from lchic - and the question arises - who has a right to try and do that?..

n Missile Defense #13878 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 12:53 pm
rshow55 - 09:33am Sep 23, 2003 EST (# 13876 of 13877)

Cantabb's comment ["Too bad the dots are NOT numbered. That would have helped some to get 'some' picture for the effort."] is interesting. Some dots are much better numbered than others - and for such reasons - we share about 100,000 definitions of words that we figured out for ourselves from a well marked context...

n Missile Defense #13876 - rshow55 Sep 23, 2003 09:33 am
Some perceptive comments in your last postings , gisterme - and great comments by fredmoore - liked this especially:

I see the whole KAEP process being similar to building a parallel siding for an imminent train wreck. Far enough ahead of the disaster and the train so you can switch the train to the new track just as things are starting to look grim.

It's going to be a nail biter, but the alternative is allowing the crash to occur and starting civilisation all over again...

n Missile Defense #13875 - cantabb Sep 23, 2003 04:03 am
lchic - 09:25pm Sep 22, 2003 EST (# 13865 of 13873) ~~~~ It got understood and exposed ~~~~

drawing dots as a cape around us, we each 'make ourselves up' as we dance along ... creating our own realities

That's what it looks like.

Too bad the dots are NOT numbered...

n Missile Defense #13864 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 08:44 pm
rshow55 - 08:00pm Sep 22, 2003 EST (# 13860 of 13860)

More of the same. NOT going to help.

We need to learn to be clearer, and more reasonable, about what cheating is - and what fairness is...

n Missile Defense #13859 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 07:56 pm
rshow55 - 07:38pm Sep 22, 2003 EST (# 13858 of 13858)

I posted a number of postings very specifically connected to missile defense. Did you look at them? ( See above...

n Missile Defense #13857 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 07:29 pm
rshow55 - 07:10pm Sep 22, 2003 EST (# 13859 of 13859)

Why the sudden (and passionate and hostile) interest?

I'll be rereading every one of your postings - but I can't help wondering why the recent yet passionate ( and hostile ) interest.

Asking you to focus "hostile" ?..

n Missile Defense #13856 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 07:10 pm
Cantabb - I've searched ALL your postings on this thread - you're referenced a few times by other posters - but your first posting is 13705 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15398 - posted after I was away on a trip.

Why the sudden (and passionate and hostile) interest?

This was before your first posting - but I think for backgound - you might look at 13690 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15383 and especially 13691-2 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15384 - posted just a short time before your first posting...

n Missile Defense #13855 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 05:12 pm
http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15553 [rshow55]

More of the same !

I think that my "unfocused ramblings" are pretty focused.

And, therein lies most of the problem...

n Missile Defense #13851 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 03:59 pm
I wrote:

Cantabb http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15535 , I really do hope to reply to you, if I can get around it - but it does seem clear that you and I disagree about what fairness is. What balance is. What matters in context...

n Missile Defense #13850 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 03:19 pm
http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15543 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15544

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15545

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15546

Nothing mentioned or raised in these lengthy posts has anything to do with issues raised and discussed in my posts so far on this thread. Comments on my exchange with gisterme reflect nothing but misunderstanding and confusion.

“You [cantabb] say that it is cheating - that it is unfair to do that things necessary to do so”: ...

n Missile Defense #13843 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 01:10 pm
I've made a suggestion for towed PV arrays that is technically workable - with a huge payoff - but that requires large scale cooperation. It would require some exception handling. Are such approaches cheating ?..

n Missile Defense #13842 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 01:05 pm
Just now, I'd prefer to respond to gisterme - who says some interesting things.

gisterme - (# 13806 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.Yh5gbFgdIFd.1528534@.f28e622/15499 contains this:

There's probably no place you can go on the web, in the world, solar system, galaxy or universe where the participants have more experience in dealing with endless repetition. ...

n Missile Defense #13857 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 05:12 pm
http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15553 [rshow55]

More of the same !

I think that my "unfocused ramblings" are pretty focused.

And, therein lies most of the problem...

n Missile Defense #13853 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 03:59 pm
I wrote:

Cantabb http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15535 , I really do hope to reply to you, if I can get around it - but it does seem clear that you and I disagree about what fairness is. What balance is. What matters in context...

n Missile Defense #13852 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 03:19 pm
http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15543 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15544

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15545

http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?1@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15546

Nothing mentioned or raised in these lengthy posts has anything to do with issues raised and discussed in my posts so far on this thread. Comments on my exchange with gisterme reflect nothing but misunderstanding and confusion.

“You [cantabb] say that it is cheating - that it is unfair to do that things necessary to do so”: ...

n Missile Defense #13845 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 01:10 pm
I've made a suggestion for towed PV arrays that is technically workable - with a huge payoff - but that requires large scale cooperation. It would require some exception handling. Are such approaches cheating ?..

n Missile Defense #13844 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 01:05 pm
Just now, I'd prefer to respond to gisterme - who says some interesting things.

gisterme - (# 13806 http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15499 contains this:

There's probably no place you can go on the web, in the world, solar system, galaxy or universe where the participants have more experience in dealing with endless repetition. ...

n Missile Defense #13843 - rshow55 Sep 22, 2003 12:57 pm
Cantabb http://forums.nytimes.com/webin/WebX?8@13.fZn3byAEH4r.1191706@.f28e622/15535 , I really do hope to reply to you, if I can get around it - but it does seem clear that you and I disagree about what fairness is. What balance is. What matters in context...

n Missile Defense #13838 - cantabb Sep 22, 2003 11:03 am
One of the ways to express one's appreciation for this thread would be to post on-topic, without the endlesslessly repetitious, unfocused ramblings.

n Missile Defense #13818 - cantabb Sep 21, 2003 12:00 am
gisterme - 11:42pm Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13817 of 13817)

jorian - "...I do not simply scroll past, because cantabb has been a vital contributor, with both commentary and links, to other discussions in the past..."

gisterme: I've read posts from him elsewhere where he seemed entirely reasonable too.

Thus begins arm-chair pshychoanalysis of yet another poster. Could identity speculations be far behind ?..

n Missile Defense #13817 - gisterme Sep 20, 2003 11:42 pm
jorian -

"...I do not simply scroll past, because cantabb has been a vital contributor, with both commentary and links, to other discussions in the past..."

I've read posts from him elsewhere where he seemed entirely reasonable too. What do you supposed happened to him?

n Missile Defense #13816 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 10:27 pm
NB: My 3-part post was rushed. Has some obvious editorial escapees, but not enough to make any significant difference. Shouldn't matter to those who scroll by or ignore, but the pedants may still quibble.

n Missile Defense #13815 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 08:05 pm
jorian319 - 06:20pm Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13814 of 13814)

Whatever.

Yeah, whatever !

n Missile Defense #13813 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 04:30 pm
Jorian:

Whether you care to read/scan/scroll by my posts here [or on other forums] is YOUR choice.

NOT a required reading, you know.

You can also "Ignore" (I thought you already had me on it)...

n Missile Defense #13812 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 04:10 pm
jorian319 - 03:50pm Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13811 of 13811)

Holy crap.

Maybe NYT would be interested in setting up a forum entitled "The Conduct of Other Posters", and set cantabb up as the moderator. I, for one, don't like having to scan all of cantabb's posts looking for content other than commentary on other posters' behavior...

n Missile Defense #13811 - jorian319 Sep 20, 2003 03:50 pm
Holy crap.

Maybe NYT would be interested in setting up a forum entitled "The Conduct of Other Posters", and set cantabb up as the moderator. I, for one, don't like having to scan all of cantabb's posts looking for content other than commentary on other posters' behavior...

n Missile Defense #13810 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 03:19 pm
gisterme - 11:36am Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13805 of 13806)

continued with overlap....

Okay. I'll just ignore you from now on too unless you want to do something besides whine...

n Missile Defense #13809 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 03:19 pm
gisterme - 11:36am Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13805 of 13806)

continued with overlap....

As to your comment that I “haven’t been around long enough on this forum to be making statements like that,” Once AGAIN, I’d have to say "...SO ? Is there a REQUIRED qualifying time limit ?..

n Missile Defense #13808 - cantabb Sep 20, 2003 03:17 pm
gisterme - 11:36am Sep 20, 2003 EST (# 13805 of 13806)

Just one more time, this detailed, this specific .....

I see you responded to my specific comments. Quoting is one thing, but I know you say you don’t want me to belabor the point, but once again, it’d be nice IF you read them carefully too, before reacting...

n Missile Defense #13805 - gisterme Sep 20, 2003 11:36 am
"...SO ? Is there a REQUIRED qualifying time limit ? Set by you ?..

n Missile Defense #13799 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 09:02 pm
fredmoore - 08:18pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13796 of 13798)

STILL in the school yard ???

Cantabelle is a deceitful dolt who has come to this forum without any substance and with the express intent of closing the forum down.

"[D]eceitful dolt" ?..

n Missile Defense #13798 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 08:33 pm
gisterme - 08:11pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13793 of 13795)

cantabb: "...I don’t want to belabor the point,..."

gisterme: Then don't do it any more, cantabb.

I wouldn't have to do that anymore, IF you read carefully the exchanges you comment on ....

As I've said, I'm nobody's judge; still, I can't help but notice the mountains where there should be nothing but teeny tiny mole-hills...

n Missile Defense #13795 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 08:15 pm
gisterme - 06:55pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13788 of 13790)

cont'd with overlap....

"...Strange ?” That you would become so defensive so quickly, cantabb? Yes it is...

n Missile Defense #13794 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 08:14 pm
gisterme - 06:55pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13788 of 13790)

Let me restate: You haven't been around long enough on this forum.

SO ? Is there a REQUIRED qualifying time limit ?..

n Missile Defense #13793 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 08:11 pm
"...I don’t want to belabor the point,..."

Then don't do it any more, cantabb.

As I've said, I'm nobody's judge; still, I can't help but notice the mountains where there should be nothing but teeny tiny mole-hills.

I'll ask again...

n Missile Defense #13792 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 08:01 pm
"...[We’ll waive the sense of humor]"

Please don't do that, cantabb. Survival here would be far more unpleasant without it. ;-)

n Missile Defense #13791 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 07:09 pm
fredmoore - 06:13pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13787 of 13787)

Reminds me of an old joke: There was an ant in the jungle who fancied an elephant. So one day he climbed all the way up her back legs to take out his satisfaction on her. A Monkey in a nearby tree saw this and was disgusted, incensed and secretly very jealous...

n Missile Defense #13790 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 07:04 pm
gisterme - 06:02pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13785 of 13787)

I don’t want to belabor the point, but you have to start reading the exchanges more carefully. Otherwise, you’ll create more confusion and unnecessary problems, and waste time.

I read the exchange you linked to...

n Missile Defense #13757 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 08:04 pm
fredmoore - 07:43pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13755 of 13756)

He's out of the kitchen sink and into the sky He'll peck you to death in the blink of an eye escaping the axe he comes here to spy equipped with the missiles of logic and lie but what he fails to comprehend and this I say as sure as a friend there are all kinds of missiles and all kinds of defence and this forum makes no distinction, makes no pretence the essence of MD is not in DC it's in our backyard and over our fence.

FM2003

You should have around when NYT had a Science Poetry Forum (may be you were).

He wasn't the one in the kitchen sink

May be he is in the sky

and will swoop down you before

you get out of the school yard

He's no spy, he's no fool

Since you can't make any distinction

between all kinds of missiles

and all kinds of defense,

no wonder you've turned into

a huge kitchen sink

a sink that stinks !..

n Missile Defense #13756 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 07:49 pm
I'd love to see this forum get "back on topic". However with the huge volume of "stuff" that was posted by rshow and lchic that made it nearly impossible. When a casual contributer wanted to post something, it would be swept away by pages and pages of "rshow/lchic" before anybody else could see it to respond...

n Missile Defense #13788 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 06:55 pm
cantabb -

Let me restate: You haven't been around long enough on this forum.

"...If it's been 'beat[en] to death long', why it's taken this long to put it in the ground. Why turn it into a personal kitchen sink before that ?..."

Ask somebody that knows, cantabb...

n Missile Defense #13753 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 07:13 pm
gisterme - 06:58pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13751 of 13752)

If you're asking rshow to focus on it, you might as well forget it.

I was hoping the 'regulars' would do that by themselves. With or without NYT intervention...

n Missile Defense #13785 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 06:02 pm
cantabb -

I read the exchange you linked to. It didn't looke to me like you, Volchin and Fred really didn't know what each other were talking about at least part of the time...and the topic was so fundamentally important (I'm being facetious)! However, I'm really nobody's judge...

n Missile Defense #13752 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 07:08 pm
bbbuck - 06:52pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13749 of 13751)

You're right cantabelle.

Not out of School-yard yet ???

This is where posters go, when they want to post reams of gibberish...

n Missile Defense #13784 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 05:56 pm
gisterme - 04:37pm Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13781 of 13782)

You just haven't been around long enough, cantabb.

Too bad, you didn't know or notice, but I've been on NYT Forums long enough to know; just Did NOT post on MD forum. But I'm somewhat familiar with its course, as I mentioned before...

n Missile Defense #13751 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 06:58 pm
cantabb -

"...WHY NOT focus on it, then ? Instead of ......"

If you're asking rshow to focus on it, you might as well forget it.

Besides him the rest of us seem to be finding some focus...except for you.

n Missile Defense #13781 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 04:37 pm
"...Close to 14,000 posts now, but I don't see the debate on this forum YET conforming to the stated Header : ..."

You just haven't been around long enough, cantabb. There were 10,000+ posts that were deleted before the current 14,000 began. The topical debate has been "beat to death" long since...

n Missile Defense #13748 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 06:24 pm
jorian319 - 06:14pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13747 of 13747)

cantabb: I might start watching this Forum

Jorian: Is that a threat? :-)

Well, NOT even a promise ! Just "might" :)

Well, it is a public forum,

Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's there for ANY one to keep abusing it...

n Missile Defense #13780 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 02:31 pm
fredmoore - 09:10am Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13775 of 13775)

Wow What a selective, self-serving recall ! You think the entire exchange is NOT here to "check" ?

Let see :

People, people, Listen up!..

n Missile Defense #13746 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 06:14 pm
jorian319 - 04:58pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13744 of 13744)

On public discussion and public decisions on defense matters: We don't do it openly NOW, and, I don't expect they will do it on MD. Lot of times we don't really know what we do already have. ALL for obvious security reasons !

n Missile Defense #13745 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 05:45 pm
jorian319 - 04:58pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13744 of 13744)

...OTOH, there is a reason that such decisions are not made at the public level.

The lack of pressing need NOW may be one reason for lack of interest. BUT that doesn't mean one can turn the forum into a kitchen sink...

n Missile Defense #13744 - jorian319 Sep 18, 2003 04:58 pm
It may be possible, but we don't really have it, do we ? Do we need it? Do we need to spend more money on it, in view of other budgetary demands ?..

n Missile Defense #13775 - fredmoore Sep 19, 2003 09:10 am
People, people,

Listen up!

Some conflicts don't need a resolution .. just a clarification...

n Missile Defense #13743 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 04:49 pm
jorian319 - 04:27pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13741 of 13742)

gisterme: ...the bottom line for me is not whether it's possible or not (I'm sure it is) but whether it's needed or not.

Jorian: Agreed. A smuggled or domestically assembled device would seem a much greater threat than one delivered (suicidally, by the country of origin) by missile...

n Missile Defense #13742 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 04:44 pm
gisterme - 04:07pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13740 of 13740)

That was a rhetorical question, cantabb. Didn't you read the rest of the post? ;-]

I did know that...

n Missile Defense #13773 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 04:41 am
gisterme - 12:49am Sep 19, 2003 EST (# 13771 of 13772)

I've got to think you guys have a long track record with cantabb when you both and even bb seem to go ballistic immediately upon his arrival. Something's up.

Once again, do you know who personally attacked whom first?..

n Missile Defense #13772 - cantabb Sep 19, 2003 04:31 am
gisterme - 09:40pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13768 of 13771)

cantabb - "...IF you care to see the sequence of exchange, you'll realize that it was HE who started this cycle..."

gisterme: So what? Rise above it. Apply a little grace if you have it in you...

n Missile Defense #13740 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 04:07 pm
"...Again, even IF it were on that topic, [Human Conflict resolution] what's THIS got to do with 'Science' ?..."

That was a rhetorical question, cantabb. Didn't you read the rest of the post? ;-]

Anyway, if a technological missile defense system is really to be discussed, the bottom line for me is not whether it's possible or not (I'm sure it is) but whether it's needed or not...

n Missile Defense #13771 - gisterme Sep 19, 2003 12:49 am
jorian -

Thanks. As for the advice, you're probably right; but it would seem it's already too late. I think that horse is already a-wanderin'...

n Missile Defense #13739 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 03:43 pm
gisterme - 02:53pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13738 of 13738)

Then why not call this forum "Human Conflict Resolution"?

Even IF it were, do you think any 'human conflict' can ever be resolved by the rambling naivete seen here. OR, by old personal tales, conspiracy theories (poster identities etc) and the kitchen sink approach ?..

n Missile Defense #13768 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 09:40 pm
cantabb -

"...IF you care to see the sequence of exchange, you'll realize that it was HE who started this cycle..."

So what? Rise above it. Apply a little grace if you have it in you.

n Missile Defense #13767 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 09:33 pm
fredmoore - 08:44pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13762 of 13766)

Cantabelle,

Welcome to the schoolyard, Having fun. I am.

The school yard is still YOURS ONLY...

n Missile Defense #13766 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 09:26 pm
gisterme - 08:36pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13761 of 13765)

fred and cantabb -

Boys, boys! If we're going to make a serious effort revive this forum, why not bury the hatchets and try starting anew?

Fred, you know I respect your opinion, even when I don't agree with it...

n Missile Defense #13733 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 01:38 pm
fredmoore - 01:29pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13729 of 13732)

Saudis consider nuclear weapons

By Ewen MacAskill in London and Ian Traynor in Vienna September 19, 2003 ................................

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What do you think Robert?

Wow !

n Missile Defense #13761 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 08:36 pm
fred and cantabb -

Boys, boys! If we're going to make a serious effort revive this forum, why not bury the hatchets and try starting anew?

Fred, you know I respect your opinion, even when I don't agree with it...

n Missile Defense #13759 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 08:17 pm
gisterme - 07:49pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13756 of 13757)

I'd love to see this forum get "back on topic". However with the huge volume of "stuff" that was posted by rshow and lchic that made it nearly impossible. When a casual contributer wanted to post something, it would be swept away by pages and pages of "rshow/lchic" before anybody else could see it to respond...

n Missile Defense #13727 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 01:21 pm
gisterme - 12:58pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13726 of 13726)

Agree.

Have been watching the forum for a long time. Never had time or interest in the inane ramblings about everything and anything, including the personal matters and dirty laundry...

n Missile Defense #13726 - gisterme Sep 18, 2003 12:58 pm
cantabb -

"...Just review the posts since my first post here yesterday !..."

Not to mention the last couple of years. We actually did have some somewhat interesting discussions about missile defense for a while; but that's been a long time ago.

I agree with you that most of what's been said here doesn't even have anyting to do with human conflict per se...

n Missile Defense #13725 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:32 pm
Oops. Post repeated, for some reason !

n Missile Defense #13724 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:30 pm
bbbuck - 12:20pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13721 of 13721)

When's showalter, due back?

Missing his posts already ?

Mine are going to be different & focused, IF you recall !

n Missile Defense #13723 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:29 pm
bbbuck - 12:20pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13721 of 13721)

When's showalter, due back?

Missing his posts already ?

Mine are going to be different, IF you recall !

n Missile Defense #13722 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:22 pm
bbbuck - 12:20pm Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13721 of 13721)

One of the markers of cantabelleism, is that he will take a meaningless post, and repost it , line by line, adding his commentary.

It IS for your benefit. Specific response to specific comments...

n Missile Defense #13720 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:19 pm
fredmoore - 11:21am Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13718 of 13718)

Back to juvenile, chat room, behavior ? A la DownUnder ?

Cantabelle is a chook that pecks and pecks ...

n Missile Defense #13719 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 12:10 pm
bbbuck - 11:20am Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13717 of 13718)

Well I usually call him cantadd, but I like cantabelle.

Back to juvenile, chat room things. Right ?..

n Missile Defense #13716 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 10:30 am
fredmoore - 10:03am Sep 18, 2003 EST (# 13715 of 13715)

Cantabelle,

ONCE AGAIN, it's Cantabb, fredmoore !

IF you're interested in a civilized exchange, that is. Don't try to reduce the exchange to such juvenile levels...

n Missile Defense #13714 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 09:39 am
fredmoore - 10:55pm Sep 17, 2003 EST (# 13706 of 13712)

.... Missile Defence is much more than just technology.

We know that !..

n Missile Defense #13713 - cantabb Sep 18, 2003 09:02 am
fredmoore - 10:55pm Sep 17, 2003 EST (# 13706 of 13712)

I've no idea why NYT keeps this Forum. It's a mystery. However, Missile Defence is much more than just technology...

n Missile Defense #13705 - cantabb Sep 17, 2003 08:31 pm
Close to 14,000 posts now, but I don't see the debate on this forum YET conforming to the stated Header :

Missile Defense

Technology has always found its greatest consumer in a nation's war and defense efforts. Since the last attempts at a "Star Wars" defense system, has technology changed considerably enough to make the latest Missile Defense initiatives more successful? Can such an application of science be successful?..

n Missile Defense #8100 - commondata Jan 26, 2003 11:46 am
lchic, I've skimmed that discussion you reference; Chemist accuses Cantabb of getting him fired; Cantabb responds:

cantabb #13590, On his personal difficulties (Job & health), I have already expressed my sympathies, and sincerely ! But these have NOTHING to do with ME !

Then much, much bickering...

n Missile Defense #7471 - bbbuck Jan 8, 2003 01:57 am
Hey if anyone is interested on 'Creation and Evolution' chemist99a lost his job, and appears to be accusing a fellow forumite (cantabb) of somehow causing it.
I was going to post a question to chemist99a and ask him how he thinks cantabb could have accomplished this, but I chickened out.
Still I thought it interesting how a person could lose a job he's held for 20 years and then blame an 'anonymous' poster for perhaps causing this job loss...

n Missile Defense #3275 - lchic Jul 25, 2002 05:53 pm
I read this http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/23/health/psychology/23COOP.html?pagewanted=all&position=top and in the this goes with that sense
http://www.msnbc.com/news/784052.asp would have to be set by it
see cantabb "Science News Poetry" 7/23/02 12:53am and next SciPoem lchic "Science News Poetry" 7/23/02 7:14am ... along with which one would have to take into account that many 'standard beliefs' including dominant male are being reworked, as in the getting through the gate {GameTheory - direct v side}subway station research.

If the old theories are where the rules and political systems were devised - and they misfit the community they are supposed to provide for - then a re-think is important...

n Missile Defense #1990 - lchic May 4, 2002 12:05 am
DOTS cantabb "Science in the News" 5/3/02 5:31pm

n Missile Defense #1891 - lchic Apr 30, 2002 08:50 am
Bio-terror cantabb "Science in the News" 4/30/02 5:03am

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MAYdayPEACE : The world won't listen

May Day protesters are demanding an end to exploitation and military aggression http://www.guardian.co.uk/mayday/story/0,7369,707704,00.html

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